The Making of a Mentsch: An Exclusive Interview with Rabbi Moshe Walter on Preparing for Shavuos, and Overcoming Challenges

0:00 Without further ado, the great Rabbi Moshe Walter, welcome to the Motivation Congregation podcast. Thank you. Thank you for having me. It's very exciting to talk with you. So what I know about you, just to introduce you to the audience, I looked into you for a little bit to figure out if everything is what they say about you is true. I have written. I found in Rabbi Aron Lopensky's introduction that he says that Rabbi Walter himself is a paradigm of menschlichheit and most appropriate that he brings the Torah to the public's attention. And I know also that you're fluent in a lot of Shas and Poskim. If you don't mind me asking where you attended yeshiva when you were younger, I find it interesting. Sure, sure, sure, it's a multifaceted background.

0:41 I went to pretty standard high school. I went to MTA. That's where my career began. I attended Yeshiva Rakotel after high school. I then found myself in Wayu for several years and after that I went to the Mir Yeshiva in Yerushalayim where I spent many, many years. I lived in Yerushalayim for close to 10 years. I learned primarily in the Mir's kol? Ol in Yerushalayim, but I also was in many other kol? Ol in Yerushalayim as well during my time there. Wow. So who did you learn on during there Tisrael, if you don't mind me, who were the rabbis? So most of my time I really, truth is really, from a very young age I had an affinity for halacha and learning Ali B'dahil Chassah.

1:27 So even in Bais Medrash, whatever Masechta I was learning, I always found myself learning Rambams and Shulchan Aruch and Tur Bais Yosef. So I always had a strong affinity, trying to understand how exactly Psak Halacha worked and what emerged from the sugiyas and organizing the sugiyas in that fashion and what emerged from the sugyas and organizing the sugyas in that fashion. So really my entire tenure in Kol HaNir Shalem for about 10 years was very much focused on halacha, learning halacha. So I was in many different halacha chaburas throughout my time In the Mir Yeshiva, outside the Mir Yeshiva, starting at Kol, also in Yerushalayim. So the primary amount of time was really in many, many halacha chaburas. But I spent a lot of time with Gedol HaRabban and Gedol HaPosk and I was very much influenced by Ramat Siodaich, the Rav Ramat Shlomo spent time with Rav Yisrael Gans and some other, rav Ram Kershman, rav Rav Eleichter.

2:18 I was able Baruch Hashem to moshamish many great people and learning with many great people. So that was a lot of my time was spent in that area. Wow, I know also that you were neighbors with the Folds. Big shout out to them. Because, my Fold right. He's one of the secrets that he can right. Very good, very good, yeah, regards. So you are a Mechaber, sfarim. You author great Jewish literature. I've only recently come across your books, when in this making of a mensch and this came to my attention. But I would like to ask you to talk about. This is not your first book.

2:59 How many books have you authored? How did you get into writing Sfarim, and what are they normally about? Good question I really. The answer is I never intended to write Svarum. They just sort of developed organically. I'm not sure if I was a good writer or not a good writer. When I was younger I liked reading and I enjoy writing, but I never considered myself a particularly focused writer. What happened is actually interesting. Sort of like any journey. This was totally unplanned and unprepared, just like my plan of being an artist yourself for about 10 years was unplanned. It was just similar. This was not a journey that I sat down to be an author to write books.

3:43 That was out of the picture. That was nothing that I ever considered. But, as I mentioned before, I always liked organizing, putting things together and writing things up. So any of my learning I have notes and a good portion of what I was learning and they were always very organized worked through. What happened is that I guess somewhere toward the end of I don't know my tenure in Eretz Yisrael, I started writing a lot of Klal Ehorah and Peskei Halacha, or just organizing how exactly the methodology of Halacha works, the history, understanding how the Bais Yosef worked, whether the Bais Yosef was influenced from going through a lot of the Hagadamas, of the G'doli, rishonim, g'doli, aposkim and sort of, found that I had a very good, pretty decent understanding of how the Rambam, how the Shulchan, aruch, the Tur, the Bais, yosef, the Levosh, the Ramah were trying to organize their codes of Jewish law.

4:41 And as I organized and as I spoke to people I gave shurim, I saw that this was something that was fascinating to people. It was fascinating to kolagais who are learning halacha, who really didn't understand exactly how the system worked. It was fascinating to rabbanim, to poskim and to really beginners trying to understand and to appreciate how the halachic process works. And before I knew it I collected, you know, hundreds and hundreds of pages of usodos in the halachic process and before I knew it it really was something that was prepared to be a safer and I was a young guy, nobody knew me and I tried peddling the work. I actually wrote everything.

5:21 How old were you? How old were you, how old are you, when this happened? I was probably 32, 32 or so, 32 and change, and I really, like I said, I wrote everything by hand. I didn't have a, I didn't have a computer, I did not know how to type. Everything was written by hand. So if I lost it, it's gone. Like many swarm were lost over the Doros yeah, that was lost. Many, many swms were lost over the Doros. The Adi Gubanarade was lost. Many Svarms were lost, burnt in fires and like. So I held them like they were gold and I had this manuscript of papers and I was peddling it to see if anybody would be interested in publishing it. So when I was in the mirror I hired somebody to type all of my work. I found somebody to type all my work and it was all organized.

6:04 And you know, like a young guy trying to find somebody to be interested in publishing, this was not so easy. So I went to all the classical, well-known publishers and they were totally uninterested. They didn't think this was a sale, they want to make money and they didn't think this would be a moneymaker and beyond that, they didn't think the topic was something that was Shabbaleth called. They didn't think this was something that would interest women, children and would be comfortable Shabbos afternoon bedtime reading. So I get a lot of no's, no after no, after no after no, until one publisher saw that they felt that this could be something of interest, and Baruch Hashem. I brokered a deal with a publisher called Menucha and they showed interest in the Sefer and we worked together to put it into book form.

6:49 And baruch Hashem. It was extremely successful. The first printing sold out. We reprinted it again and that sold out, and now I'm very proud that we brought it to Feldheim and now Feldheim just republished it and printed it again. So, after a lot of hard work and unpreparedness, that's how the first Safer developed. I mean, this is officially a motivation podcast. I love that story because of the idea of it. Just everything came together and people gave you no's at the beginning. That is so. It's almost hard to understand now that nobody was interested. You know, back then in the first book it was about what problem did you solve by publishing that book?

7:34 What was the goal? So certainly the goal was clarifying for people and there is a lot of unclarity there how Pesach works, where did the Shulchan Aruch get his Torah from? And there are a lot of. If you'll see the Sefer, the Shulchan Aruch himself had an enormous amount of challenges to the Shulchan Aruch. Many people, many Gadol Yisrael, felt that the Shulchan Aruch was not a Sefer that should be used Just like the Rambam Sefer. People challenged Gadol Yisrael challenged so everybody. If you're talking about motivation, g'dol Yisrael were challenged throughout the Doros, including their Sepharim. So the Shulchan Aruch was not a Sefer that was in the Scabal right away. The Beis Yosef was a Chiddish.

8:16 What the Beis Yosef did, collecting the sheftas of the Rambam, the Rif and the Rambam did this was never the goal. In Kala Yisrael, tar Shabal Peh meant Tar Shabal Peh, that it's supposed to be oral law. It wasn't meant to be written down. Of course, the Mishnah Yisrael and Chazal wrote the Talmud and we organized and put it together because that was a necessity. But certainly this was never the intention that there should be an organized canon that everybody should be able to be accessing. So why is it? What is it? How does it work? What's the basis of the psach and the mechaber. How could the rambam argue on the mechaber and who is the mechaber to decide psach alacha? And how could the mechaber often argue on the rambam? Does the mechaber argue on the rambam? When does the rambam and how does?

9:05 The synergy between this farm and the history of this farm and how exactly that developed is something that we try to do and Baruch Hashem. It's something that people who are not involved at all and interested really altogether in halach and Jewish law are able to understand that there is a rhyme and reason, there's a method to the madness, and those who are learning halacha can also appreciate exactly how it is that we organize psak halacha, how Rabbanim are able to work with piskal halacha, how to weigh difference farm, how to understand what's a halacha, what's a minag? What's a khurma? What's ikra ad-din? What does it mean that a baal nefesh is machmir? When can you be mekel?

9:46 Should you be mekel? And the gamut of different background, the underpinnings of halacha, is something that is very much focused on in the Sefer. It takes it from just a yellow book, a phone book of just laws, and it gives it depth. So you're the rabbi guy, you're the poisek, you're somebody that's mastered this, but that's not why we called you in today. We called you in today because you have written three books, and the first two books that you wrote correctly, if I'm wrong are about halacha and how all that goes down the making of a halachic decision. The second one is called the Making of a Minhug, which also fascinates me. I don't know how Minhug and company made, but if you're the Halacha guy, how is it and why is it that you came all of a sudden to kind of switch towards a different thing, which is the making of a mensch?

10:35 That's Midas. Midas ain't Halacha. So how did you come into that? That's a great question. I appreciate that question. It's a very important question. The answer actually is exactly the same way. And what people don't appreciate enough is that the same way there's halacha for benadum l'makom, there's also halacha for benadum l'chavera. And the same rigor and the same lundus and the same lumdis and the same sugyas. And the same way that Gedol Ha'aposkim and Gedol Ha'achronim and Rishonim analyze a sugya, whether it's in Hilchot Shabbos, whether it's in Erevim, whether it's in Yivamus or any of the Bava Kamabom Tziya, bava Basra, the same thing is true benadum l'chavera.

11:19 And the goal of the Sefer, the making, the man Shehilchot Ben Adon L'chavero, is really to show that the same analysis, the same Abai and Rava in Bav Mitzia, is also the same Abai and Rava in any sugya in Ben Adon L'chavero. You know Shavuos is coming, so you have your five Dibros Ben Adon L'macham and your five Dibros Ben Adon L'chavero. They Habero, they're the same thing. And very often people have a sense that Ben Adel Machaber is just like for the nice guys and it's not really important, it's not a stress and we're often very hyper-focused on Ben Adel Machaber. The out-of-towners, but we should be. We should be focused on Ben Adel Machaber and we need to try to develop the same sensitivities and the same approach and understanding for Bein Adon HaKavera as we do for Bein Adon HaMakom.

12:11 And the truth is, if you go back through generations, the challenge is that there's no sif and simet for Bein Adon HaKavera. If you go through Daal Chalkei, shoch, narech, so you could find very clear places where the halacha exists, whether it's Gittin and Kiddushin, it's in Eben Hezer, whether you're looking in Chalash HaMishpat for all forms of interpersonal areas of halacha, but there's no specific place to look for the halachas, ben and l'chare. So there were G'dolei HaKoram who authored such a sharam. There's a sefer called Amitzus HaLevavos. He was a Rav who lived in the vicinity of Briskim. Chaim Briskim gave him a skam. There's a Sefer called Shulchmerach Lamidos Orach Meisharem.

12:52 So Gedoli HaPolskim did write Sfarim on B'nai Adam L'Chaveri because there was the understanding that this is an area that needs chizuk. That's an area that needs focus and attention. People need to understand much better that the same analysis and halacha and lundus also exists in the area of ben adam l'chavero, and the same way we analyze any sugi and shas, that also is true when it comes to ben adam l'chavero. So one of the goals of the sermon is to show people that any question, any issue ben adam l'chavero needs to be analyzed, needs to be focused on, needs to shayla's, needs to be asked, and that's really what the Sefer comes to do, the same way that there's a very, very clear approach and focus and stress in Bein Adon Mamakom.

13:33 If you're learning Hilchot Shabbos, if you're learning, like I said, hilchot Erivin or anything that you're learning, the post can also address these areas of Halacha identically and we just need to know how to learn them. I don't necessarily find that halacha applies to loving thy neighbor as thyself. How is it possible to codify, give exact parameters of loving your neighbor as thyself? So you're going to have to read the chapter in the book about that. But the mitzvah of Avos Reim. I did. I found there's a right. Is there a makhlokas? Rambam and rambam, yeah, yeah the major, major makhlokas. We showed him how to learn the push-up shot in the pasuk famous ramban.

14:16 And there's a sheet to the rambam, there's a smag, there's a smack and all the monia mitzvah. Try to understand what the getter of that mitzvah is. What does it mean to love somebody? How do you fulfill that? What are you supposed to do? So the Rambam enumerates a way to do that. The Ramban enumerates a way to do that. But the same way that we try to uncover pshat in Bor and in Shein and in Regel, you also have to understand how am I able to fulfill a mitzvah, diareisa of Haftorei HaKamacha, the mitzvah of Aser Haim. So the posk addressed that, the Rishonim addressed that, the Monimitzvahs addressed that, the Akhronim addressed that there's a marasha, there's gemaras about this, there's five or six gemaras in Shas where the Pasuk of Haftal Rech has brought and you have to understand those gemaras, learn those gemaras and understand what the Chazal are teaching us about the Mitzvah Haftal Rech HaKamocha.

15:11 Hillel of course, told the Ger who wanted to convert whatever is hateful to you, you yourself should not do to others. So Hillel understood that that was the most critical thing that any convert needs to know before coming is the mitzvah after Echad Kamorcha. So certainly we need to understand how to fill that. You're talking now in the time of Sefer HaOmer and the importance of as an am and as a nation and as a people. So the mitzvah after Echad Kamocha is a critical mitzvah Now if you want to know how to fulfill it, so it doesn't just mean say I love you, you have to know how to fulfill that mitzvah.

16:01 What is that mitzvah? The Rambam, the Numereitz, the Levayas, the Hameis are all b'ch looking out for somebody, escorting somebody out of your house, calling somebody, texting somebody, showing interest in somebody, feeling for somebody, listening to somebody, talking to a person. All of those are. So yes, we need to know that that's a, but we also have to know how to apply that. And is it a mitzvah of the Risa? Is it a mitzvah of the Rabbana? When is it a mitzvah of the Risa? When is it a mitzvah of the Rabbana? You know I'll tell you something which might interest you and your listeners. You know, I would say the majority of my day, maybe week or month, as a rabbi is probably spent dealing with people and people's problems and adversity family feuds, neighbors fighting differences between parents and children, parents not talking to kids, kids not talking to parents.

17:05 There are so many makhloksem, whether it's community makhloksem, whether it's family makhloksem, whether it's differences of opinion, people not talking to each other. It's clear that what lies at the heart and a big focus of what we're seeing and what I'm dealing with is all in the world of Ben Adon HaHavira and therefore there's no question that there needs to be a focus on how to treat others and how to care for others, and everybody has the right attitude. You know, when I said in the Dintara, there are two sides. There are always two sides. How clear is it ever that A is right and B is wrong?

17:48 I can tell you from significant experience sitting on Dinai Torah the truth lies somewhere in the middle. It's rare, if ever, that it's so obvious that one person is 100% correct and the other person is not. So we're people, people are people, life is life, and we bump heads and we have issues with each other. Whether you're in yeshiva, in the base medrash, whether you're in a office setting, whether you're in a family setting, wherever you are, people express feelings, emotions. I shouldn't have said what I said. Maybe I should have said something instead of keeping quiet. Maybe I should have been more careful about doing something that I didn't do.

18:28 Maybe I shouldn't have done that. There are so many interactions that we have throughout the course of the day. It's unbelievable how many times that I insult somebody. I didn't even realize I insulted somebody, or I could have helped somebody. I never helped somebody. So I think one of the ways where we could sort of strengthen ourselves is by recognizing that the Torah speaks to each and every single case. You know if you want to follow halacha so there's a code. We know how to do that. You want to learn Mishnah Baruch, ha'a Harach, hasholchim Chai, adam Kitzel, sholchimach, the gamut of Sfarim. So those make us better halachic Jews. Those make us better people. Because we're following halakh, we're doing what it is that HaKadosh Baruch Hu wants and we're very focused on making sure that we keep every prat ben Adol Macham.

19:12 We don't want to make mistakes and we're very cautious and careful with every area of halakh. So the way that we could become better Jews and care for each other more and better neighbors, better friends, better family members, better spouse is if we understand what the halacha expects of us and, very often, if we're able to be in these areas sensitive in these areas, the same way that we're careful and cautious and meticulous in all areas of halacha or a chayim, your edaya heaven ezer. You know how many questions do I get in kashrus? How many questions do I receive in or a chayim? It's constant.

19:53 Everybody's asking shaylas, ben adam l'macham, everybody. I could ask you how many questions do you think I get a week ben adam l'machavar? How many questions do you think I get a week Ben Adon Machaver? How many questions do you think Rabbanim are receiving, ben Adon Machaver? So maybe around the Asar, simei Chuvah, there more. Should I forgive this person? Wanted this person. Forgive me, do I have to go out of my way, but there's no question that there's not enough of a focus in this area. What role does it play? I apologize for interrupting, but I'm struggling to understand. Let's say I improve myself, I get better in my mitos. I don't believe it's a mitzvah to have good mitos. Let me have a poor conduct, poor ethics.

20:36 Maybe my father will ask me to leave the table because I don't have the proper etiquette. But is it a mitzvah to have good mitos? What role does that play? So Reb Chaim Vital asks your question. Reb Chaim Vital, the outstanding disciple, the Tal Mufak of the Arizal, asked this question, let's say for Shari Kedusha. He asked this question why doesn't the Torah tell us, why doesn't the Torah give us a mitzvah, that every person, every human being, should have good midos? That's his shahadah. That's a good question. That's a really good question. Take a look in the shahadah. She asked this question. Chayim Tal's answer is that it's a prerequisite. You can't limit it to a mitzvah. It's a prerequisite to Kabbalah Satorah is being a person who is a Baal, midos Tavos.

21:24 You can't start, you can't get off the ground, you can't begin the process of a Seres HaDibros, of a Kabbalah's Torah. Ki Yishach HaBalei V'Echar is a prerequisite to Kabbalah's Torah. We need to be people who are giving, who are caring, who are sensitive, who are understanding, who are kind and considerate, and if you're not having those qualities and characteristic traits, the Torah doesn't even speak to you. The Gra, says the brother of the Gra, rabab Ram, the Ach HaGra and a say from Alasotar writes that just like grass grows because of rain, weeds also grow because of rain and you can have very tall weeds. It says the same thing is true with Torah. If a person doesn't work on their midos, the Torah that they're learning is just growing weeds.

22:07 The Torah grows, builds a person, but it depends. If you have splendid midos and if you have a refined character, then the grass will go and be lush and it'll be green. But if you don't refine those traits, then you're not building anything. You're just growing weeds as opposed to grass. So yes, it's a prerequisite, it's mandatory, it's a must. Not everything is writ large in Chazal and not everything is explicit. The Rambam, by the way, answers your question. The Rambam says yeah, it's all. Bechalav Eraf, torech and Kamach Midos are all Bechalav Tachas, the, according to the Rambam, that it's a mitzvah sasei. There's all forms of middos, tovos, of interpersonal behaviors, of interpersonal relationships, and mitzvahs ben al-lechar, all fall tachas under the mitzvah of the after-echad kamocha.

22:53 But yes, it is a must, it's a guarantee, it's mandatory and we could talk about it. You see from G'dol Israel that there was such a focus on these areas. What do we say before Yom Kippur? You can't receive tshuva, ben Adon L'machon, if a person didn't rectify their relationships. Ben Adon L'machon, there's no tshuva. There's no tshuva. You can't ask a Kaddish, baruch Hu, for tshuva on Yom Kippur, for any avera ben b'rad l'chaveh, if you don't take care of that between your friends. It doesn't work like that. So there are two channels and there are two highways that have to be driven and they should be working together. Right, right, wow, so correct me if I'm wrong.

23:34 I recall that there's also a villain who writes in Mishle that there's no point of life if we're not working on our mitos. Does that ring a bell? I don't know if it's specifically a Mishle, but many Gadol Yisrael have made such comments that they say, from Yisrael Salanter, it's easier to go through Shas than to have Shas go through you, meaning many people can get through Shas, but to allow Shas to affect you, to penetrate you, to change you, that's a much more difficult task. So therefore, yeah, we need to focus on it, just like we focus on all areas. So in this book titled the Making of a Mench that you authored, it is a very unique Sefer because it does exactly this, where it shows us, of course, now we know that we need to have good midos and be a mench, but now it shows that there are also halachos of how to be a mench and how to have good midos.

24:31 The first thing that actually comes out from the Sefer is I love the layout, like the fact that it's just, it's easy read. I'm not. I don't have the longest attention span, so there's questions, the answers, the sources and then the conclusion. I love that about it. The introduction that you create all the intrigue and prove why people need to work on their midos, and I must mention the bibliography is also, uh, is great, uh, that is one of the best. Just the way that you tell us who these rabbis are that you're? quoting. It feels like there's a chunk of your making, of a halacha coming through. Um. So now I want to talk some blitz questions. I want to get into the nitty grgritty, figure out a couple examples where my brain says let's be a mensch.

25:16 But now there are halachas and there are guidelines and I'm going to come at you perhaps with a couple different scenarios as to what would be halachically mandated by the torah in these unique situations, if that would be okay, please. So let's talk about one of the first mitzvot that we find. God came to visit Abraham. God came to check up on the sick. We have a sick person. I believe the mitzvah is called Bikr Cholim. I believe it's a Mishnah, even it's stated. We say it perhaps daily. So the question that you address in this book my friend is sick.

25:59 God forbid, no one should know of it, but he has a contagious disease. Does the Almighty want me to walk in and be Mevachir Chola and check up on him, even though one slight cough and I may contract his contagious disease? Yeah, this is a very prevalent question. It's not an academic question, this is a very real question and, of course, this is a balance between fulfilling a mitzvah, a very important mitzvah, a mitzvah dirayisah. Like you said, and according to many posts, and certainly according to the Rambam, it's part of the mitzvah of Ahav Talarei, hakamohacha. We say it in the Mishnah, in Peah. So Bikr Cholim is an extraordinary mitzvah, and the Gemara's Masechas in the Darm tell us great stories from G'dolei Tanoim HaMorayim, who fulfilled this mitzvah, and, as you pointed out, avraham Avinu himself was Mavak Yercholim.

26:51 The Gemara teaches us in the first paragraph of Masecha Sota, that we are supposed to imitate HaKadosh Baruch Hu. Hakadosh Baruch Hu was Mevach Yercholim. Hakadosh Baruch Hu visited Avram. So, too, we also have to be Mevach Yercholim. But what do you do in a situation where it could impact you negatively? It could affect you. So we do have a klal. I have to care about my life before somebody else's. If I'm safe and I'm okay, I don't necessarily have to put myself into harm's way to take care of somebody else, which in and of itself is a very important question which I also address in the Safer. How far does a person have to go? Do I have to put myself in danger to help somebody else? Is that required? Is that something that the Torah mandates?

27:32 That's a separate chapter. That's discussed in many, many different facets. But in this context, many poskim, most poskim, and it seems to be pretty clear I don't have to visit somebody if they are sick, and they will get me sick. I don't have to put myself in harm's way or in danger in order to visit somebody to be mevakechol. That's not necessary. That's not required. It is important to note that there are other ways to potentially fulfill the mitzvah b'ikacholim, and this the Gedolai Apostle can talk about, or Moshe has a tshuv about it. Whether you can fulfill the mitzvah b'ikacholim over the phone or with a letter or today, even through Zoom or seeing somebody without actually contracting the contagious disease, and you might be able to fulfill that mitzvah, whether or not you're actually fulfilling the mitzvah directly, the same way, arguably, you are.

28:18 The Ramban actually writes the reason to actually visit the sick person is to see them and when you see them you'll feel their pain. And if you feel the pain when you see them, then you'll be able to daven for them more effectively. So a card, a letter, a phone call might not do that, because you don't see them, you don't feel them, you don't see their sorrow, their pain, their suffering, their loneliness, their anguish, their physical, emotional and spiritual pain. But maybe, if it's a phone call, if it's a WhatsApp, if it's a Zoom, and you see them, so you could certainly make an argument that could fulfill the mitzvah. That way, there's no question, being there live is critical and is important, but, me'ikr hadin, one is not required to do so. The one caveat and this is very important, this comes up a lot if any of your listeners are doctors and nurses.

29:03 So the post-chimera, tetsaliazer, mavadja, others that yes, if you are a healthcare professional, if you're a medical practitioner, so part of your job is to take that level of risk practitioner, so part of your job is to take that level of risk, and that means that it's your responsibility potentially to put yourself in danger. We're talking about ambulances, we're talking about paramedics, we're talking about first responders, we're talking about doctors, we're talking about nurses. All of these individuals have set up themselves for a career in a line of work that has a significant level of danger. So once they've signed up for that, they can't just walk away. And if there's somebody who is contagious to some of these dangers.

29:46 So today we have ways that medical practitioners and professionals able to take care of themselves and protect themselves as best we can, but they might not have the head there that a lay person has and say you know what, I'll find a different way, because if you're not going to care for the person, if you're not going to take care of the person, who's going to administer the drugs, who's going to administer all of the necessary requirements in order to get that person back to health? So there is a hillock between medical practitioners and professionals and the average person. That is fascinating. I love that there's clear guidelines as to what to do. It brings a certain amount of menucha the difference between a text and a FaceTime and the difference between what your profession is if you're in health care.

30:34 Another question I have perhaps now is the right time to ask it and you're the right person for the question to be posed to. It's a pet peeve of mine and I think it's a misplaced pet peeve of mine because of some maybe lack of understanding of something. But I'm praying psuchedism or I'm wrapped in my talisman and I'm praying Pesuket HaZimra. I'm wrapped in my talis and tefillin and I'm consistently being bombarded by the holy collectors that are searching for some help with their own cause or maybe collecting for another cause. I'm familiar that there's two losa ases to close your hand and close your heart in tzedakah, that we have to make sure to give tzedakah, and I'm assuming there's a positive mitzvah also to give tzedakah.

31:15 I mean you should always do justice and righteousness. Uh, they have to learn. Also, how do I proceed? What's the right outlook? Halachically speaking, what does a mensch do? Do I stop my davening every sentence and give another dollar? Do I even need to give them? Do I need to give my family first or, god forbid, give somebody else something that needs something needs something. How does a mensch go about this kind of interesting scenario? Yeah, it's an important question and certainly tzadka is one of the ways that make us the people that we are. We're an extremely philanthropic people and the amount of tzadka that Kalei so distributes is enormous. Our response time is unbelievable. But there are a lot of people asking and I think we all know that, whether it's solicitations by mail, by email, by WhatsApp, by phone, in person, there's no end to the needs that exist and very often they're very worthy needs and very serious needs.

32:08 How and when does a person have to respond is a very, very complicated question and it's a very difficult question. You know, although, as you pointed out, there are answers and there are clear answers, you know there's still doubt in many things that we do. So, yes, there is a laugh. Torah tells us that you can't look the other way. You're prohibited if somebody's asking you for money to look the other way. So, in your particular context, in shuls and davening and the like. So the truth is there are different ways that even shuls go about it. I know of shuls that they don't allow somebody to collect during chazar soshats. They might not allow somebody to collect during psuket dezimra and they will say you need to wait till after davening.

32:51 There is an approach, there is something to that. We do see that we have seen historically in Qalisaw that there were times when an appeal was made during davening, maybe by Kriyasatar, before Kriyasatar, at a time when there was muttah to be mafsik, and there are times that that's done immediately after davening. So if there's a minigamakom, if there is an established shul custom where an ani is permitted or prohibited to ask, then the answer is much better and certainly that is the best thing to do. If shuls bat-de-medrash you know bat-de-knesses could set up established times in ways that a staka collector, shliach and mishulach is able to ask that makes life much easier is able to ask, that makes life much easier.

33:36 If you're in Shemoneser and you keep on having somebody tap you, or during Psuket Dezimra you keep on hearing clunking of money and there is a level of disturbance. But at the same time people need. I've seen people do interesting things. There are people who leave money out and a collector knows that I could take that money. There are people who will respond. So I think a lot of it is very much dependent upon the person, upon your kavana. But you always have to balance. You know, really, are you just so focused on your davening that you don't even able to see somebody else. There's an unbelievable maiza with a balatanya. The balatanya had a son or a grandson who the baby was crying in another room.

34:18 Baby was crying and nobody was paying attention and there was an element of chassidus and tzidkus that nobody was able to pay attention to a baby crying because there was such focus on one's learning and one's asmada. And Bala Tanya said that's a mistake. If you don't realize that there's a baby crying when you're learning, you're missing the whole point of your Talmud Torah. So there needs to be that balance in their honesty when there are people asking you for something right. We know the Nitziv actually writes when you were discussing the Mitzvah B'nai Adum L'chavero of B'Ker Cholem, the the mitzvah ben adam lechavero of Bikr Cholem. The netziv says when HaKadosh Baruch Hu came to visit Avraham Avinu when he was sick, he wasn't feeling.

34:59 This is God visiting Avraham Avinu when he was in a situation of tremendous pain. Hakadosh Baruch Hu himself came to visit him. Could you imagine that? And all of a sudden, avraham Avinu sees three people. They weren't tzaddikim, they weren't angels, they were malachim. But they didn't look like that. They looked like vagabonds, like waywards. They were Arabs who were walking without shoes. Avraham Avinu tells HaKadosh Baruch Hu Adonai imna matzah sichein beinecha, wait a minute, hakadosh Baruch Hu, I need to talk to these other people. Unbelievable. That means Avraham Avinu stopped what he was doing, his dveikus with the Kaddish Baruch Hu, his ispoidedus with the Kaddish Baruch Hu, in order to take care of the Anir, in order to take care of people who needed to be housed in order, people that needed hospitality, people that needed it's a pillar.

35:46 He put Hashem on hold. So there you have it. That's the Nitz. That's what the Netzev writes. The Netzev explains in HaMikdavah, right on that Pasuk, that there are times when you put that aside, b'lyashiv Paskins. It's quoted in the Sefer Tfilik Hilchasa that if a person has Orchim guests at his house that are just coming and you need to set them up and give them what they need there's a tour of Tfilik B'tzibor how could you run out on them? Leave them. That's the netziv mamash. So B'yashiv says if you're in such a situation where you're tending to the needs of your orchem, your guests, and you're just going to leave them stranded and invite them into your house and allow their baggage and belongings to stay and to sit and you don't set them up and put them where they need to go or, you know, give them what they need to eat.

36:30 That's a bit of the mitzvah of Ahasuerus. So the riot that is this mitzvah and Avraham Avinu's behavior. So the same thing is true when it comes to tzadzak. A person has to be very honest, very honest. There are times where hefzik is mutter, mipnei ha-kavod, mipnei ha-yira. So a person has to know this is a mitzvah. It's a separate question which is addressed also in the Sefer. But you have to be able and this is the Mechaberites, the Rambamites. Part of the mitzvah of Nesina Staka is not just the money, it's not just writing the check, but it's b'sever panam yafos, it's giving the person the time of the day, it's giving the person their deserved honor.

37:12 This is tzelam alokim that we're dealing with. And if you just look the other way and point and growl and don't act, bederach kavod, you're not fulfilling the mitzvah of tzedakah behidur. And the Rambam writes that explicitly. It's pasken sholchan archel tzedakah. Part of the mitzvah is not just, as I described, the check, the swipe of the credit card, but it's saying I understand, I get it, I feel your pain, I'm connecting to you. Yes, the tzedakah is the mitzvah but there's another element to the mitzvah as well. I'm bringing it to mind now. In your book you brought an incredible story about a man who was attacked, with people constantly trying to raise money and asking for money, and he went to visit the Chavetz Chaim and he heard the Chavetz Chaim talking about ach tov v'chesed yir defuni.

37:58 That to be pursued by kindness is, so to speak, in perspective. It's better to be pursued by kindness than to be pursued by, god forbid, who knows what else. Absolutely Something in the book kind of, if I may say, just it was a game changer. It it took me a little bit and it bothered me a little bit that the I don't actually like all that much having guests um friday night because of the fact that, well, I want to buy myself a nice bottle of wines but I have to buy two. It's like awkward only to buy one. So then I gotta share, but I can't necessarily my cold check's not gonna get two fancy bottles of cabernet and then, and then also like I don't get to see my kids that much.

38:41 I'm always at yeshiva, I just want to hang out with my family, but I go out of my way like every, you know, come time to time and and invite. I invite guests from down the block. I'll invite friends, family. In the book you make some unique guidelines. You pointed out in the post-kim that perhaps having my next-door neighbor over for a suda may not be a fulfillment of ha-knesses orfim. Is that true? Yeah, the post-kim talks about what exactly the parameters of the mitzvah are. So if you're having people that are independently taken care of, that have a house, that are able to fend for themselves, is that really the mitzvah of Hachnas HaSorachim?

39:23 So if you're just getting together with people who you know because you enjoy that and they enjoy that, there's a strong argument to make. There's Ma'aral's brother in the Sefer. Hachayim seems to indicate that HaKhanas HaSorachim means that you're going out of your way, looking for somebody that absolutely needs the invitation. Maybe, according to the Ramah, it could be even inviting somebody, dafka, who's out of town, and finding somebody who needs the HaKhanas HaSorachim. Somebody doesn't need it. So maybe that's not HaKhan chanas asorachim. It could be somebody's in a tough spot, in a difficult situation. Maybe the finances are tight, maybe somebody had a bad week, somebody needs the chizuk. So yeah, of course, maybe just having friends over is also b'chal ha'av, ha'av terech k'moch.

40:05 Maybe you're not fulfilling the mitzvah of a chanas asorachim, but there's no question that when we're inviting people, that it's easy and that I don't have to think twice about. So that might not be an absolute fulfillment of the myths. It's much easier to have those who you know friends and family and those who you're comfortable with than those you're not comfortable with. The people who need it are the people who are alone Almanos Yusomim singles. Those are people who will benefit much more and the people that we need to be looking out for more, and I think that's a very, very important thing that we all need to be thinking about. Who are we inviting? How are we inviting? Am I thinking about somebody during the weekend, calling them, saying you know, I'm thinking about you, love to have you over?

40:49 Or, if it was an afterthought, they just bump into someone and say you want to come over? It's a whole different mentality how we do that. Now, yeah, of course, we should invite people who are enjoyable to be around and who our family appreciates. But those individuals who are bringing, people who are harder to have, people who are more compromised sometimes they're physically compromised, sometimes they're emotionally compromised Sometimes they're not the easiest guests. Sometimes, you know, they're people who are difficult to have. But that is the mitzvah of Ahasuerus on the highest level. That's what Avram did. Avram was looking for people when out of his way to find people and made sure that they weren't people who were taken care of. These are people who are completely lost.

41:30 They're in the desert, and those are the people Avraham Avinu invited into his house. Those are the people that we should be looking out for, not to the exclusion of neighbors, family and friends, of course, because it could be, if you're not inviting those people, they'll be insulted, they'll be hurt and then you're aggrieving them. That might be an isra'v onah. But yes, let's think about other people who have it harder. There's so many people who are lonely. There's so many people in every community, every town, from the big cities to the small cities, in town, out of town. All they want to do is to connect with somebody else, and that Shabbos invitation could keep them going for weeks. When they're thought about before and when you continue to think about that you were invited by this person. It gives a person an enormous, enormous amount of strength.

42:11 So I think that's a wonderful, wonderful area to be Mechazik. So now I have an opportunity to ask you a very controversial question, and you write about in your book that it is controversial. I bet you know what I'm about to ask you, that now that I'm going to invite people that maybe I am not so close with and share my Kaveret, so what if I know that they're not going to make a bracha on it, meaning that they are not necessarily so stringent in their mitzvah as observance, maybe they aren't even religious? Um or meaning, am I allowed to ask them to drive or come for the holiday?

42:51 Am I allowed to enable the chesed or do achnasuz or chesed if it might lead towards some other Jew, maybe not keeping the laws of Shabbos or kashres perfectly? What does halacha say in that situation? It's a very, very controversial question and the Gadolay Apostolic Scheme contemporarily have addressed that. Shlomo Zalman Urbach, actually Zatzal, addressed that specifically. Heomo Zalman Urbach, actually Zatzal, addressed that specifically. He wrote a letter to the Anhala, to the leadership, to the administration, to or Sameach and Yerushalayim. They were asking the question whether or not it's permitted to invite a Michal El Shabbos to their house on Shabbos, when it was quite clear that those individuals would be driving to the home, driving to the house, driving to the house or in a situation Shlomo Zalman Urbach had when his yeshiva Kol Torah inaugurated its new building.

43:35 So many of the benefactors and the philanthropists were not religious, secular Israelis and the question that was raised from Shlomo Zalman Urbach was whether or not they could provide them with refreshments kibur kal and a little bit of a suda, when they know that they weren't wearing a yarmulke and they weren't going to make a bracha. Well, sisa, shame hashem will catch a lot of and and making a bracha of atal kavinis or the rice, at least according to many we shown him. And ramsha mizam, or brach, says that it's mutter, absolutely mutter. And the reason he says it's mutter because if you don't take care of them, you don't invite them for shos, or you don't give them the food, they're going to disrespect you and they're going to be very, very pained by your behavior.

44:20 And that says in Shlomo Zalman, the Isser Deir Eissa, that the Torah tells us they'll wind up hating you. So there, shlomo Zalman says better to give them something to eat, better to invite them over because you're helping them, protect them that they're not over a bigger law of the Yisra'el, of the Sistah, of the Sikhi. So, therefore, again, knowing how to weigh and to balance all of areas of the Tariq Mitzvahs, this is what Gadol Yisrael have taught us here. B'shalom HaZam Malor. But nonetheless, you need to think about how they're going to react and respond and what the fallout is going to be. When it comes to inviting somebody for shabbos, shlomo Zalm Arbach, famously, was the poseik who held that.

45:05 As long as you give the opportunity for them to stay, that would be enough. So, therefore, if you invite them for shabbos and and you say there will be a place, we have a bedroom, it has to be sincere, it has to be real. You have to have the housing for them, you have to have the bed for them If they decide that they're not interested in staying with you for those years. They're going to go home. That's their decision, but you've given a real, bona fide opportunity to do so. There's no question that in Chutzlar that Pesach is pretty much the psach that's been a scabble. And there's no question that how many Yidin today, how many from Yidin are there that we have because of that psach? Because they saw Shabbos Suda, because they had a very warm meal, a nice meal, they connected with the Torah family and therefore, as a result, they had been influenced and positively influenced as a result.

45:49 But indeed, at the same time, as you'll see in the Sefer, there are many who are very opposed to that. Moshe Feinstein's atzal took a much stronger, harsher approach to that. He wrote a letter to Bayer Kaplan telling Bayer Kaplan that they can never have people drive to a beginner's minyan on Shabbos. That would be inappropriate, that would be wrong. So therefore, there has to be a balance and, like all areas of halacha, if you have to ask these questions, there has to be a system, a policy and protocol and understanding how you do this. It's not a hefker, it's not a free-for-all. Just because you're doing kiruv doesn't mean that you know we could do whatever we want and you know, the rules of shulchanach are just bypassed and they're voided and it doesn't exist anymore. There's a system, there's an approach, and this gets back really to the making of a halachic decision.

46:36 Knowing how to paskin in these complicated, compromised, tenuous situations where you could sort of pull the string from two ends, needs a posig mufuk, needs somebody who has understanding and depth to appreciate ikra adin chumrah kula, what's an area to be more relaxed, where Torah tells us and where halacha tells us that we could be more um, you know, forgiving, if that's the right word to use these questions that are significant, that are serious and also relate, as we noted, both to ben andal chaveh and ben andal l'makom and need a serious attention rabbi, you're, you're brilliant and it's it's not the slightest wonder why your books are are selling, selling so well. Such tact, um, finesse, and answering the questions and giving over the sock.

47:17 I have endless questions, but I don't want to keep everybody from their bonfires. Maybe I could just do one more question and then we can kind of conclude with our final thoughts. Would that be fair, please? I drive like a crazy man sometimes because I have timelines where if I'm driving here I'm like there's like four roads that all lead to the same places that everyone needs to go and there's probably 100,000 Jews here. But since it's one lane highways, if one, maybe mother with eight kids is waiting to make the left and there's a backup down the whole highway, or it's supposed to to be highway, but it's a one lane street here in Lakewood, so so it could get to me with my me dose.

48:01 So sometimes I will drive faster than not the speed limit, because my father's listening, but you know, within five of the speed limit. But I want to know in Halacha, if I cut someone off in driving honking, cutting somebody off what should be my approach? What does the torah and halacha say about driving in intense times, especially here in lakewood, that's? a very real question to talk about the status of a line in halacha. Does a line have any halachic teeth to it? It's actually not so simple to find the makor in Chazal and Shas that a line plays significance, so maybe I could cut somebody off.

48:48 The Torah and Chazal talk about scholarship, gender in terms of priorities, so there's never such a thing, hayekha Koidman. I come first, hayekha Koidman. Very good. So, hayekha Koidman, yes, but it depends who you are. We have a Kohen, we have a Levi, we have Yisrael, we have men, we have women. There are many different gradations in terms of levels in Kalaulia. So If I'm a coin, I can cut somebody off. Not only that you should. If you're not a coin, you should give the coin the opportunity to go first. That's the mitzvah, as I say, the rice of the Kiddash, but cutting somebody off arguably the reason that that would be a problem.

49:32 If you're driving, you want to cut somebody off. If you want to cut somebody in line in a supermarket and the like, that would be probably fall under the category of oh no, that you're aggrieving somebody. You're paining somebody. Here's somebody who's been waiting and has done nothing else but wait to be served, to be taken care of, and I'm simply coming and cutting you off. You've angered somebody. You have violated the law according to the Ramban of Ahavasrayim. You're not loving your neighbor like you love yourself. You wouldn't want somebody to do that to you, so how can you do it to somebody else? So therefore, these are areas where a person has to really calculate their behavior. Like Hazal say, a person is tested kiso kaso. A person is tested how they behave with their money.

50:13 Person is tested kiso kaso. A person is tested how they behave with their money. Person is tested how they hang out with their honor. These are areas where a person is really tested. And when you get in your car and when you get online, that's when a person is really, really defined and that's when a person really is judged. That's when a person really knows what they're all about. I'll tell you something you know when you read biographies of Gedolah Yisrael. So what do we take out of them? And a lot of what we take out is they're godless, they're genius. But there's something else, and this is the most important thing maybe, that exists in all biographies Gedolah Yisrael had impeccable midos.

50:53 Impeccable midos. You read about Rabbi Yisrael Salanter and the Chafetz Chaim, rabbi Yaakov Kamenetzky, rabbi Chaim Shmulevitz these people, they had enormous depth of heart and incredible sensitivity. Rabbi Yisrael Salanter coined the phrase Gezal Sheina Not stealing somebody's sleep, being careful when somebody's resting and sleeping, not to be loud, not to be noisy, not to trample over somebody. The Chavetz Chaim authored, you know, the Shemira Salashon because people weren't behaving correctly. The Chavetz Chaim wrote the Sefer Avas Chesed because he wanted people to be able to be taking care of each other. Chaim Shmulevitz before was popular. You know, in every WhatsApp you see somebody hugging a soldier.

51:36 Reb Chaim Shmulevitz, 1960s and 1970s, would see an Israeli soldier, would hug him, would cry, would daven for him, because that's my brother. And Reb Yaakov Kamnetsky, his midos and his ability to act with integrity, titin emes liyakov. This is what makes us the nation we are, this is what makes us the people we are, that we have ancestors like this. We have people to look up to like this. And what makes a yid a yid is asheri mi shibol akad mitalmud liyad. Take a look in psalchim andaf. Nun, the Rebbeinu Hananl explains that to me. If you see a person acting with gurmidos, that means they're learning well. If you see a person who behaves properly, that means they have Talmud be-yadah, because then the Torah penetrated them.

52:22 Then the Torah has taught them how to behave and the goal really of Talmud Torah is to be able to be a person who is elevated and to be a person who's closer to HaKadosh Baruch Hu but closer to each other, and to be a person who's closer to HaKadosh Baruch Hu but closer to each other. I've seen with my Rebbe and I've seen with those who I feel a stronger closeness to. Those who I look up to are people who act appropriately. It's not attractive when you see somebody get angry and upset and who acts rough and gruff and doesn't. Who's attracted to such people? The people who are most attracted to are the people who are pleasant. Rav Tam's gadlos besides his gadlos betorah was because he was a pleasant person. He was a person who acted with piety.

53:04 Why were the Chavetz Chaim's Svarim so niskabel? Because he was a person who imbued and embodied all of those behaviors and lived them. The people we are so attracted to and who we so look up to are those people who are refined, who act appropriately, who act properly, and that's what Gedol Yisrael was. When you read biographies, look in the biographies not just about the genius and the pure academic minds and the ability that Gedol Yisrael had to understand text and appreciate them and to work hard and the lumbus and the hasmada. But how did Gadoliso behave to each other? How did they treat kittens and animals? How did they treat people who were poor?

53:47 How did they treat people who weren't as successful? How did they treat the average person on the street? That's the test. So the test is how you drive. The test is how you act in the supermarket. The test is how you behave in your dorm room. The test is how you behave in your house, in your office, when not people aren't looking, and that's when the gedder of ben adam hachaveh emerges and that's when we know a person's real self and real sense. And this is what should motivate us. God willing, it's part of this motivation congregation, beautiful podcast you have and great work that you're doing is that we should all be motivated, inspired to be working in a way we are bettering ourselves, we're climbing the ladder. Like Rav Sadjugon says that he was a better person today than he was the day before, and part of life.

54:32 Like you pointed out from the Gra, and as we know that Gedol Israel said, rabbi Israel Salanter says this, and Chavitz Chaim makes this point we have to be better. We have to be more caring, more sensitive, more understanding, more nuanced in everything that we do, and that's what makes us the people we are. That's what makes us the nation that we are by Shonim Rachmanim. The people we are, that's what makes us the nation that we are. That's what the Gemara tells us, that we are defined by those three characteristics Are we caring? Are we kind? Are we philanthropic? Are we beneficial? Are we sensitive? Are we caring? Do we perform chesed? This is what makes us, the nation. This is what makes us the people that we are. Learning Torah isn't just a pure academic achievement, and the goal is not just to learn Sfarman, to go through Shas and to be better in the areas of Ben Adon HaMakam, but Ben Adon HaMakam has to be equated, just like, we said, the Dibrot.

55:29 Ben Adon HaMakam, ben Adon HaMakam are equivalent. They're five and five, and Los Achmor is just as important as Shemir Shabbos and Kibra Ve'eim is just as important as Anoche Hashem Elokecha. That's what we have to be doing, that's what we have to be focusing on. There has to be that balance and that nuance and we can't have this focus in one area, not the other. Those were some iconic couple minutes here on the podcast that should be listened to on repeat. Those golden words that you just spoke there, rabbi walter, who's the biggest mensch that you know now I'm really gonna get in trouble. And they asked me the hardest question. I'll tell you something not not excluding anyone else.

56:10 Everyone could be a big mensch or honorable mention. I came up with that pun, honorable menschens. But who's the biggest mensch? I'll tell you what I'm most inspired by. I'm most inspired by the people who ask me questions in Bin Adon HaHaber, when I get a shayla about did I do this properly or what should I do in this situation. Did I do this properly or what should I do in this situation? I have that now, a particular few difficult situations that people are asking me about, but when a person is sensitive and understands that I need to figure out the right way to approach, whether it's a child, a parent, a friend, a relative, a neighbor something happened that, to me, is the definition of a mensch is somebody who recognizes that I'm not just going to take care of this myself, or I'm not going to pretend that it didn't happen.

57:05 What's the right way to behave? And it could be with a non-Jew. I have this very often. Did I behave properly to my housekeeper? Did I behave properly to my nanny? Should I do this? Should I not do that? I can't pay them on time. Do I have to pay them on time? There are so many people who are eager to do the right thing and those people are asking those questions and we really, if anything emerges from this, it's that we should be more mindful and be more thoughtful and more sensitive in all of our behaviors and interactions with other people and when there's something that is questionable, think about it and see. What does the halacha require of me?

57:46 What am I supposed to do? Ask Shiles in all areas of halacha. Rabbi, all I can tell the people is go and buy the book because we're not going to have the time to go through all these questions. We've got to wrap up because there's bonfires to get to. But I'm telling you, people, the other questions of it comes down to whether or not you can put a check mark next to the mitzvah of I went to a chasana to gladden the chasana and kala. If you do it right, then you did the mitzvah. But it's possible to attend a wedding and maybe and not fulfill the mitzvah. You got to find out the guidelines. Ladies and gentlemen, um, all the ideas I have questions that we're not going to be able to get to, about war and this situation of hostages and wartime.

58:36 There are different. These are unique scenarios that you know. They're not exactly even new to the world of the Jewish world, the Jewish world in post-gift persecution. You reference. There's literature in your book that you go through clearly about at least what to ask about. What's a shayla Organ donation, one of the most incredible chapters I have to tell just to speak out and the idea of it could be koposach t'lech chayuseh that I want to run advertisements of this interview that I thought was great and I want people to click on it. So I'm going to run this ad on my friend's podcast because I'm going to steal all of his listeners to listen to my podcast. That's halacha Shiloh, am I correct?

59:17 Absolutely Very, very serious, Shiloh. So people buy the book the Making of a Mench Rabbi. If I may, any other books, rabbi Walter coming down the chute, that we may know of Any future writings. Yeah, I'm actually working on the making of the Siddur, the history of the origins, the development of Nusach and people teaching people how to appreciate, I guess, the Dinsim, baruch, shammar and Shmonesh. Everybody thinks whatever's in the Siddur is identical and there's not so much knowledge amongst all of us who are davening three times a day about the tefillahs that we're davening. All of that is going to be addressed.

1:00:14 The making of the sitter incredible. I thank you for your time. I hope that people will not only buy the making of a mensch, but if you want to know more about halacha and more about a minach, I'm going to have to get you back on the podcast. Looking forward it was a pleasure thank you for your time. Thank you for helping us learn what it means to be a mensch and prepare ourselves for Harsinai thank you, yes, keep up your great work, michal. Amen amen.