SPECIAL EPISODE! Interview with Rav Yisroel Levovitz Discussing the Life and Legacy of His Great-Grandfather Rav Yeruchom Levovitz on his 87th Yahrtzeit

0:00 It is my understanding that tonight and tomorrow is the 87th Yard site of your Haley Zayde great grandfather, Moran Ravi Rukham Lvovitz, Zokran Lvovich. Correct Khrisivan 1936, Afraish Tadegbaal. Aha, and therefore I thought that it would be exciting to have you on the podcast to ask you some questions to further Understand this great guzzle. He's someone that I am enamored by. My best answer. But don't think for a second that I understand them, because I don't. But I can tell you what I know, just from growing up with him Aha the backdrop of my life.

0:44 You know, nobody understands and he was too great for us to understand, you know haha, i hear. So let's get right into it. Would you perhaps Like to give the audience a just a introduction as to who you are and your relationship to this great individual? Okay, so, like I said, my, my father, his name is Ribi Rukham Lvovitz name. He was at first in the family named after his grandfather, my father's father. My grandfather's are Moisha. Label of of its is the Ribi Rukham son and then Ribi Rukham was my great-grandfather. And you, and you said your father's, and your father's name is your Rukham as well right, correct. My father was born in 1941.

1:25 Every of them is next to 1936. Yes, aha, it is. Uh, i must just to kick off the conversation. Is it someone that you? I have sort of a feeling that It's kind of found new love and new respect about this figure. I mean it's there has only been a biography that's come out about him now, almost 87 years after he's passed away, and it makes no sense to me and it feels like some Sort of wave is coming with his muster and his approach. Do you feel the same way with that? I am quite interested here. Well, no, again his biography. If you take a look at the biac that came out recently in English for that in Hebrew, it's not much of a biography per se.

2:10 It's more about, you know, his derech and and and his muster and and and the things that he, you know he put into people. It's more about his derech than about him as a person. He was a person, was not. It was not know many things about him that are obscure, that we don't know about his You know his early life or there were pockets within his later life that we don't really know much when he was running. What does that mean? What does that mean? That means that we don't know much about his parents. We don't know much about where he spent his early years until he got to Kellam. We don't really know much about him And it was when he got married. We know that he went to Radan and he spent eight years in the Chakram Kail And when you know, once he was married, then he sort of came on the scene, you know being the Mashiach in Radan.

2:53 No, there was some at some point. He was a Mashiach in Panoviz at some point. They say he might have been something and you know, there was a Mashiach in. Panoviz In this in the town of Panoviz, not in Shiva Panoviz again. There was were times during World War one, especially when he was running, but running when there were packets of years where we really don't know what was going on with him. No, you could pick up bits and pieces from different Swarovim, different books, different knows, like sightings, for lack of a better word of him. But until until the golden years of the mirror. You know that's when he first really took over the scene and then from there is what we know of them. It's early, as we know that when you first come, i already learned in the custom coil of the couple of its time, you learn for Chabrusa with their Naftali Trump, they finish us and she'll come out together.

3:41 They, he learned about you, left beyond the Chabrusa and Kellam. You know, we do know these, these things about him. But but the Rebi Rukham that you know, is there a group of the mirror? Aha, that is very interesting, right? It feels like the way that the authors put it the story ends is that the mirror of his golden age was during the 20s and kind of Rebi Rukham took all that he had from the Chabrusaim and all that he had from Sabaadga and all that he had from Kellam and then brought it to a time that was just perfectly right to be able to share it with the world. He was definitely a product of, you know, the Altam and Kellam, as well as the Altam and Sabaadga was Rebi, but more You know, the Altam and Kellam was really his, his Rebi.

4:30 You know, everything he said was and he said about himself was a perish on what he heard from the Altam and Kellam Every, all the Shmuzam, all his, all his bad and was all like being Maffari's. Everything he learned from the Altam and Kellam and, mind you, he only learned by the Altam and Kellam for a year or less. After that he would. He stayed in Kellam by the Altas, from the Khomzev, the Altas son and the Son and Law. But the Altam was just a year of his life But it was such a profound impact that had on him that the rest of his life he was, you know, living with that and teaching that. He was in Radin before after Kellam. So I believe he's in Radin afterwards. Kellam was where it was. It was his formative years. Then he went to Radin after he got married.

5:11 He stayed there in Kailal for eight years and then he sort of became Dimash Ghechler. Then it was you know. Again. It's not so clear what happened to him in the Chavitzheim, but it wasn't the right place for him. He was maybe too dynamic for that, for that. Because that was gonna ask you for some clarification on that, because the way that that it's written over in The books, especially I think that the way his son writes it in Das Taira, is that it was. He was too. He felt already that it was one or two Bukhara that were coming over to him and it and instead of going over to the Chavitzheim And he felt like it was just taking away and he was so unfitting in the present.

5:54 No, that's, there's a lot of truth to that. Yeah, i mean, he was definitely No, felt that that that wasn't the place where he could or maybe should be the, you know, the go-to person. The Chavitzheim was there and the derrach of the Chavitzheim and his derrach were not always, no, the same derrach. It wasn't, wasn't anything contentious or anything, because he felt that that's just not where I, where I belong, you know, interesting. So so he, there's a. The other side of the story is that perhaps it wasn't the same Mahal, chotin, ravirachem and Chavitzheim. So something like that. Yeah, again, I don't. I can't tell you with clarity. I've heard various different versions of the story from different people, from different Swarov. It just wasn't. It wasn't where he belonged, you know. He just felt that he can be more productive elsewhere and less of a You know of an issue with the derrach of what was going on around.

6:43 Aha, that's my mistake. I got it. I got it, and from from Radin. He then went immediately to his next stellar, his next position. It's not immediately because you know he did. You know at one point They wanted him to come to Kellam. Then World War one got in the way. It wasn't a smooth sailing type of thing at all. You know it was an issue going on in the mirror at the time. It's why they brought it made. Actually wasn't like he just like a one muskier passed away, needed another one. The mirror that that we know of. You know the Altamir and I know you're a blade Malin. There's more program that that mirror. You know, before he came in it was a. It was a very old issue. It was one of the things was the second oldest issue after collusion.

7:24 But at that time there was a lot of, let's say, I don't know if you know call it mismanagement or you know it wasn't. Things weren't going smoothly and and the Lizzie don't think it was much, she had the time saw that he needed to bring someone in. So You know I believe the altam is the but was the one who told us Legio to To bring a brucham in and it was really a tremendous Thing on her legio's part because I think he knew going in that he was pretty much giving the issue away to every room. Rukh's personality was such that when he came over to the Shiva I mean, it was, you know, was the rush she ever but every room became the You know the, the guy you know he was so captivating the way they put it like yeah, he just they.

8:09 They all became comedy And Blazioidl knew that and he didn't care because that was his personality in general, blazioidl, blazioidl did a little anything for the furtherment of Tyra, you know whether it's his own Yashiva, different Yashiva, he wasn't a selfless kind of person. He knew going in that he's giving the Yashiva to Rabbi Rukham, but that's what he wanted, that's what he did and that's why he produced what it did. Amazing. So I must ask you about. He's obviously famous for his talks, his lectures, the way that his one-on-one meetings with people I always think about, though, how he, how did he spend his day Meaning as a Mashiach?

8:50 does it mean that he would wake up with the Bukhram and he'd have a Chakras at the Yashiva? Let's talk. Let's jump to 1920s, when the roaring, the golden age of Mir, and he's there. There's 200 Bukhram in the Mir, and is he there at the Mir? he's dabbling with them, he's sitting in first aid with them, he's answering their Gammara questions, or does he have his own office and they come to him for advice? So again, first of all, for a large part of the time that he was in the Mir, his family wasn't there. They were in a different city, in Ozavent, and he was in the Mir and he only went home once a year or maybe twice a year. But interestingly this is a side parenthetically all his children have the same birthday. You know just the interesting thing about he went home once a year and all his children.

9:34 It's just interesting. But yeah, he was pretty much lived in the Yashiva even after they moved to the Mir. He didn't sit, i don't think, in the Beshmedesh all day. He had what's called a Shalke. It was a room upstairs which had a window down to the Beshmedesh. He spent a lot of time up there, whether it was learning, whether it was meeting with Bahram, but I don't know if he sat in Beshmedesh all day or sat upstairs. I was in that room actually many years ago when I went to visit it. I actually went up there Where is. It Is this in the modern Mir building. In the Mir I want to call modern but today a post office in a town of Mir in Belarus. The Yashiva building still stands as a post office and upstairs is like a, I don't know, i guess an attic or a room. Wait, that was his room And I used to spend most of his time with people.

10:18 I know a lot of stories that I've heard over the years Bahram would go and speak to him, they would go upstairs to speak to him. So I'm sure he made it to the Beshmedesh as well. But he did spend a lot of time up there, whether it was observing the Bahram, learning, preparing Shmoozam, whatever. He wasn't the Rosh Yashiva. He wasn't answering the Mara questions per se. I mean not that he didn't know the Mara, he, he, you know, of course he did. He saw the Mesvara and there was a bucky in the large, you know, Helig of Kholotarikula. But that wasn't his role with the Baphra. It's in trying to acquire a Mahalif, like the way he would think. What he's famous for is it's clear that the derrach that feels like to me the derrach of R'Biruchum is is that he, you know, would immediately take everything for face value.

11:03 If Chazal say it, then that's what Chazal meant not changing anything, and and every time he would try to prove or develop a topic. It's remarkable how he's citing Mara Makumus throughout Shas. Listen, you know, the Briskara famously, famously said that what R'Bchayim Briska was to the Rambam, that R'Biruchum was to Ma'mar-i Chazal, You know he didn't just read. Chazal and say his Shmooz, he Chazal was like you said, it was real to him. He took it apart, like the way the Brisk, the R'Bchayim, would take it apart of R'Ambam and say we got to you know, dissect it and figure out what the R'Ambam's saying. That's what he did to Ma'mar-i Chazal. I mean, he was, he knew Chumash-Rash-i Khol.

11:45 I know my as an interesting tidbit. My grandfather, my Shaleib, when he was, there was a kufa, when, when, i think between when the world war I, whenever it wasn't they were running that my grandfather and my great grandfather would learn Chumash-Rash-i with him every single day for like a couple years straight, And he would tell them that Ayyid has to know Chumash-Rash-i Khol because all the Saitis of Ammuna are in Chumash-Rash-i. Everything, now, everything else is is you know, you know Zilg-Gumar, but Chumash-Rash-i is every Sait of Ammuna that Ayyid has to know and anything and everything it lies in Chumash-Rash-i. It's unbelievable. That's what he did. I mean, he dissected that Sukhumi dissected the Rash-i dissected the Medrish, dissected the you know, the R'Ambam's, and that's what he did.

12:30 You know He wasn't like you said. If Chazal said it, it was true. Now we're going to figure out how it's true, what they meant and what we can learn from it, you know. Right, right, and part of the cool. The cool, you know, reason why I am so blown away by him is because it feels like I'd love to get your thoughts about this. It feels like he is the, he comes from that world that we almost wish we could tap into, of Kelm and Slavotka and Europe and all of it. But he's kind of the link where actually in the book All for the Boss, from R'Hamash-eim talking about her father, there's that famous chapter there of where it's she and her husband are speaking about their times in living in Mir and how they see Rabbi R'Humlovavitz, rabbi R'Humlovavitz, and how it feels like it's this big collision between American Bahram who are coming from, you know, the United States of America, into Mir, and it's this big connection between Europe, slavotka, kelm, and then am I right in assuming that he is someone who brought.

13:34 You're actually you're actually tapping into something interesting, which is the Mir had two types of Bahram. There was what's called the Icelander, which means people who came from outside of the. You know the inner Europe. That would include Americans, that would include even Germans. You know people who came from Canada and things like that. That's who Das Tera is. Now there's the difference between Das Kotham-Musser with the three-volume blue set. Oh, so let's give an introduction, just give an introduction for the audience that doesn't know. So now, and correct me if I'm wrong, but there's, his Rabbi R'Hum's works are published in kind of nine books, i guess. maybe actually let me let you hand it over to you to describe it.

14:16 Yeah, r'hum himself worked to publish this form of the Altif Mkela. That was his life's work. His own work he didn't publish His son. My great uncle, was the one who worked his entire life to publish R'Hum's works. Okay now, the difference between Das Kotham-Musser is a three-volume set of, you know, of shmuzan. Those are basically the shmuzan that he gave at the Ashibi. He gave it a shmuz four times a week and Das Kotham-Musser or a shmuzan that were given those much more higher level stuff. Das Taira was based on a Khum-e-Javad that he gave specifically to the Icelandic, it means, to the people who came from America, people who came from Germany and such, the ones that he felt did not have the bedrock, the foundation, the proper foundation that the other Bukkum had.

15:04 They were on a lower level, for lack of a better term, and he felt that he had to boost their imuna. He had to boost their connection to the Hazal, to the Taira, to the you know, to be beneath Taira, to be able to be on the level of a European Bantair like Roblai Malin or you know, or beyond a capital level or the lines of the mirror. Now, the Americans had to be able to contend with that. So he gave them a lot of attention And that was that special Fumishbath And that's what's known today as Das Taira. It's all based on that. So it's really it's different. You know, the shmuzan were geared to one crowd and much more maybe higher level or deeper level or or much more calimy or more slabaki, and the Das Taira was much, much brought it down a level in a way, but brought it down to content, which is why it's so much easier for us to relate to Das Taira stuff, not that it's easy, but easier than the Das Khakhumus is done.

16:06 Das Khakhumus is done is very much calmed. Who was that given to? Who was Das Khakhumus taught to? That was the shmuzan. That was the shmuzan that he gave The Hedvishiva. Yeah, the Hedvishiva, yeah, four times a week he gave a shmuzan to the Hedvishiva And that originally was you know, was printed you know little pamphlets. Eventually it got compiled into what we know as Das Khakhumus. Various Talmudim wrote over Shmuzan and eventually got you know wasn't it great uncle, It wasn't your great uncle who did Das Khakhumus sir. Yes, he was. He was the one who pulled it all together, but he didn't necessarily write all of it. You know what I mean. That was how they believed him and stuff. Das Khakhatas Theira was very much him. You know that was his life's work. I remember growing up, you know, when I was a kid, only Bereshish existed And a year or two later Shmois was published And as I grew up, you know the Televinsha.

16:52 I remember when Tevarum came out it was like a tremendous simkhla. Two volumes Tevarum, yeah. And then that was like wow, we fit that. It was a life's work. That was a life's work of you know my great uncle publishing his father's stuff for the world. You know that is not a based on addition Clive's role. That doesn't have a Das Theira, you know. There's so many. I just imagined this khusum that he has, because there's so many ideas that it feels like these certain, yes sir, just like these foundations of Jewish philosophy, theology and faith are only brought to America. It really feels like through your great, through his work, through Das Theira. Well, that's correct in a way, because again, you have to remember that the Mir Yashiva was pretty much the only European Yashiva that survived as a whole.

17:37 So there were many great Yashivas in Europe and many, you know, bali, muster and stuff like that that didn't necessarily make it out as a whole. So his Talmidim survived, you know. So there was a, there was someone there to to, to, you know, to write it, to push it out, to populate it, to, to propagate it. You know what I mean. There was. That's probably the reason why I'm not saying you know there were plenty of other people. You know there was a, well, a Pian there was a desolate. Each one had their own, you know derech, and they were definitely, you know, great people. But he had a certain dynamic which, coupled with the fact that his Talmidim survived and and and and and looked up to him the way they did like and he was like, he was it to them.

18:24 You know, and that's why you know I think that's my personal opinion You know that, what's why it's it managed to have a resurgence, you know. Why do you think that he is so people are so obsessed with him? Right, there are people that I know make make suit those, including myself, in times that they were introduced to, to, to Rabbi Ruchem. Why is he so compelling, would you say? well, like what makes him so like? I'm obsessed with with, with the speeches? First of all, also, i want to make the point that the way that this farmer also written, that's Tyra. he's clearly a fantastic author And well, a lot of that is credit to my great uncle, who was a fantastic writer.

19:12 That's what I meant to say. I meant to come right. So so, yes, you know, was a fantastic person and a fantastic writer. You know how to give a schmooze and you know he he connected. But a lot of it has to do. You know, at least on print is the way of some physical able to take it and capture it onto the page and you can read it, and you can sort of hear the schmooze as you're reading it. Literally many times myself you know different rabonim, that I've heard them speak and I read this for him and it's not the same. It's not automatic that when you say a speech and you transcribe it to print, that it retains its, its, its vivacity. You know what I mean. It's remarkable, i can I picture it. He writes like a small, like.

19:54 You see him screaming with exclamation marks and and it's beautiful, right, beautiful. Why this is for asking for the audience really to make it more accessible. You believe that there maybe would be a time that that's Tyra would be published in English, or perhaps get art scroll on board and this make a campaign. Honestly, i don't think that will happen. Why? I just don't A I don't think the, the family or the ones who would do it are are into that. So they feel that its authenticity would be diminished. You know, if it became translated it's just personal feeling. This is knowing the family and knowing, you know, the people behind it.

20:36 Again, will it eventually happen? Who knows? I know there are, you know, i do see. You know Robbie. I forgot his name, robbie. I don't know if it's ever been at Aldustine or something does put out a weekly that's Terry in English. It's been done as a here and there, pamphlets, things like that. I just don't see it. You know anyone getting on board. You know from the family at least having a translate in English. Again, that down the line. Who knows? it's 87 years now that it hasn't happened yet. You? know and where's his family now? Like when you're referring to that family, who's in charge? who are they and where are they? Um, they're all over. I mean most of them in America, you know you know, whether Lakewood, in Brooklyn, Muncie, there's a summoner to Serel, but we're a little bit of place, you know.

21:19 but you know it's again like I said, I don't know if there's one person in charge of his, his little son, and Muncie is very involved with it. There's others involved with it, But again, it's not something I can see happening. I wouldn't be shocked if it happened. I'd be surprised. All right, i guess I'm going to have to try to get in touch with with the family. I feel like there's just obviously the authenticity is, is needs to be probably protected and it's definitely something special And and even sometimes it's even when you read the Vard in Hebrew. Sometimes it's it's almost painful to hear the truth coming that it hurts to read.

22:01 See, part of the reason is what you just said. So you called it a Vard, One of the things the family, like a lot of people in the family, have an issue with. I know from the older generation. I'm I'm from the younger generation. I don't have a problem with anybody. I love everybody. But a lot of the people trying to protect whatever it is they're protecting. You know I won't call it a Vard. It's not a Vard, it's it's. It's so much deeper than that, you know it's. It's, it's the total understanding of a Rashi. It's the total. This is what the Pusk means. This is not a Vard that you say, it's not from no minus. She'll tell you that you're right on a partial sheet. You know right, part of why. You know they're very protective of the, of the authenticity of it. You know he doesn't say you know.

22:42 He tells you how to read a Rashi. He tells you how to learn a lesson from a Rashi. He teaches you, you know, the basics of a Muna and everything's a Muna. Now, everything is is boils down to Muna. That was his, that was his key. Why? why do you say that? Because that's, that's just the overall message on. Everything he said was obviously Torah based, but Muna. But you have to have a Muna. You'd ask to learn a Muna from the Torah. You read Rashi and you, if you read Vayikra, if you read the Varim, you have to be able to walk away with a Muna, vashem. That's the key message that he was always, always pushing. Now, muna doesn't just mean you know this psychedelic thing Muna is through a Torah and through everything else and through Muser, but it's ultimately it's about a Muna and Hashem.

23:28 Wow. Wow, i never would have said that, like I never would have thought that. Now that I now that I said it now, next time you you read it, please try to keep that in mind. You'll see this. You walk away from anything that he says at least that's personal, it's my personal opinion. You walk with anything you learn from him. you walk away with a stronger Muna and Hashem And that's, and that's the key, you know. Right, right, right. And it's coming to mind a couple of different, even examples of where it definitely feels like there's a Muna in in. I mean, how many times do you talk about Nisyonis and a Muna Like a kam of a kam of a man? And how many times do you talk about a Muna's chazal, a Muna's chachomim?

24:08 There you go. Yeah, a Muna's chazal is just a is an iteration of a Muna and Hashem. You know it's. You know, as Hashem will hear the Torah, the Rabbis immediately come. It's all a Muna and Hashem. It's what. The stronger person's a Muna is, the stronger we'll be able to fight Nisyonis. The stronger person's a Muna, the better his Torah will be. It's all it's based on a Muna. A Muna is the alif. That's what the alif, the reason. You know the key to everything. Wow, a Muna is the key to everything. Let's put that as the podcast title. Absolutely. Wow. So also I was thinking, as you were talking about the, what Rabir Hulman really stands for and you're saying that it's a Muna.

24:48 I have like, even on my notes before I came on to have this discussion, thinking about you know what Rabir Hulman means to me and to try to compare and contrast what you know, someone who's you know from the same tree, you know from the same family, how, what your Zedem means to you, i was thinking that there's, he very much means to me. He's, he's, he's shelling, He's. You know he talks a lot about completeness, which I was going to ask for a perspective. He talks at great length, famously, about your, your eczem, your eye right. What defines you and defining your mylas and that has come through in Revolta's Torah right Is absolutely.

25:29 So so I'd be interested for a take on that. And also, how do you? you feel like maybe that's also in Emuna, or you feel like that's something different? Like Emuna Emuna. There's Emuna in Hashem, there's Emuna in Hashem, there's Emuna in yourself. It's all. It's all keys to by Yeminub Hashem of Masha'ab day. That's what it's all about, right? You can't. You know Torah is a Sheerah. You can't get to the Sheerah until you have a Yeminub Hashem of Masha'ab day. The stronger your Emuna in Hashem, the stronger your Emuna in Hacham-e Emuna. The stronger you Emuna in the Torah and how the Torah teaches, the stronger your Emuna in in Yiddish-Kait. And the stronger you Emuna in yourself, the stronger Jew you can be, the more Muslim you can be.

26:10 Like you said, yes, slaimus is a tremendous, you know goal, in Kellan especially. But you know that was, that was one of his things. I mean, he didn't just do things, he didn't do anything without thinking about it. You know everything he did was on the slide, this ladder to perfection. You know he didn't blink without thinking. Should I blink today? Should I know? he didn't make moves, he didn't run it. Every, every move he made in his life was calculated. That was the, the, the kelm way, a kelm. You do things just. You know. You know you can. You know throw, you, throw, throw down a book on the floor makes a sound, everyone jumps and kelm. They would have moved because their their life's work was total mastery over their every move.

26:53 That was, that's the kelm way. You know that was he was. He was like the epitome of of that. He was like the ultimate. Kelm famously said that if I, that, if I, if my whole derrach was was done to produce him, it would have been worth it. Like he was the ultimate kelm looked at him as as my perfect, my perfect prototype of what I was trying to do You know And and there's also definitely a strong you know undertone of Godless in his works as well from subatka right. That's a subatka influence, of course, but that wasn't where he focused so much. You know, the ultimate subatka in himself didn't necessarily have the same way of doing things, you know.

27:37 Also yeah, the ultimate subatka. His way was to. You know, to. You know every person should, should, grow and become hit, whatever he's supposed to be. Ibrahim's way was more to mold everyone into be that. You know there was even a. You know I don't know if they're like us, but you know the altar once quipped that. You know that Ibrahim is making soldiers right Like you, just make everyone to be whatever, whereas I'm trying to mold them into something else. You know, each one on the individuality. Again, it's a different derrach. You know that the Godless Ahadim, by just by definition, has to let everyone reach their own potential, because it can't be Godless Ahadim, you know, ask if you're have to be something that's not you.

28:22 And whereas his mahalah was more like no, we know, we know what other Masha'ulah looks like and we all got to get there. Really. You know. So it was more of a. Again, I'm not going to say it was a mahalek. It's Chas Basha'ulah, but it's no. I always understood, and even at the end of that story, i always understood that Rabbi Ruchem took the muser and and there was a change, there was a shift like he actually changed the way that I've heard it over in. I know I could cite a source even. I know that Rabbi Huda Gebara, on his podcast from one of the episodes with Rabbi Ruchem, cites that story And I believe, also brings there that there you, can, you he. There was some sort of change in the philosophy and that the new way of education was going to be to build soldiers.

29:04 But then it's clear from the writings, especially in Dvartum, that. But we need to make sure everyone's doing it on his own, derech. I mean, how many times do you say that's a? so this is my own personal feeling. Again, when I'm, everything I'm saying is is my own personal feeling. But there was a story that I heard, actually from you know, a reliable source, that in 1929, when it was the massacre in Hebron right which the heaven was obviously Slobodka right And the story goes that there was a buck who was lying dying on the floor, bleeding, and the buck who was bleeding turned to the buck who was next to him and said here, take blood from me and put it on yourself So they'll think you're dead, so they won't kill you.

29:45 Okay, and he saved the other buck's life. That's what he did. He took right. And they say and I heard this from reliable source that Reb Rukh was told of this story. He said if that's what the altar's derechie produce, maybe he has the right derech. Again, that was godless enough to say, you know, maybe he has a point. If that's the ultimate, a person on the way out who's dying could stop and think about it you know, the guy next to him as opposed to worrying about his own life. Again, this is what I heard from Reliable Source, but again, so maybe that was like a little bit of a jolt to him that maybe there's something in it. You know, again, this is my own personal feelings.

30:26 It's not documented or anything, it's just the personal feelings of the family And this is a behind the scenes approach seems to me also that it's very, very often is kind of more even true than what gets to the general public. Could be, could be listened. Like I said, you know, it's not that my opinion matters more than anyone else, but this is just. You know. When you grow up, you know many decades and this is all you hear and you hear. Everything is you know, you hear, you hear things and you pick up things. Right, right, 100%. And this I've been itching to ask you this entire time. You know, taking from what you think your Zedah is, and if he was around, besman HaZeh and he would see, you know, you know, well, let's maybe.

31:12 I want to give an introduction to the question, a short one, just that. We definitely have already discovered that Rabir Iqam is kind of his mahalich was to always, you know, take from even larger things. I know he left Kellem because there was some dispute about how to run it after the altar had died to. You know, back and forth with I believe it was one of the Ram Deslairs, maybe Ram Deslairs father or something, or Reuven Dive Deslair. Yeah, it wasn't he left. They originally want, they wanted to bring him in And he actually turned it down because of certain conditions that they didn't want to let him do? He's never there. He's never there to bring him in as a Moscheeh and Kell after nothing valuable passed away, I believe?

31:54 What about the famous? story. They're yelling back and forth in the base of Manjush. No. I don't think that's accurate. I mean, i think he sent certain time that he would come if X, y and Z happened or whatever it is, And you know the Kell family at the time, you know, wasn't ready to accept that or whatever it was. Again, it was basically was a difference in Derek as well. You know. One of the things, for example, was Kellam. You know, when I was the big Kellam Mosheba the largest it ever was at any point was 24 Bukhra, right, i think one of the things was that he wanted to make. He wanted to make a larger or something. You know it was things like that that he felt that 24 Bukhra was.

32:37 You know, it could be bigger, i could influence more, you know. So this was I was going to try to get to is that he was always, seems like from my understanding, and trying to take this philosophy, broaden it, connect it to more people And even, it seems like, perhaps, water it down, because as the generations get further away from out the entire, there is a little bit of a weaker stamina and people, it sounds like. And that's why he gave those bottom to the towners, you know this seems like Lishita. So his, his mahalich, was very much reformatting the sheik, those and opinions of these great ones for the new generation. So to the question. Here's what I want to get to. I guess that's it. Oh, so let's say, fine, let's assume Lut Yitsura.

33:19 Let's say, okay, i was Bisman. Has that where, where there is definitely a lot of issues for that or new issues in in Kaisal, because we're so living amongst other cultures, gentiles and the like, we are more distracted, you know, more than ever, and it always feels to me like we're out of sorts much more than ever. And Rabir Rukhem definitely was a big promoter of Seder and organization in a person's life. If he would ask to give Rabir Rukhem the microphone at the dafiyyoymi siyama'sha'sh and siyama'sha'sh in Ma'az, the square garden, and they say give a half hour mussel shmooze to the congregation and Jewish people and what should they work on and what do they need to know to get to their goal, what do you think he would say?

34:18 Well, that's a loaded question there, but I don't think he would say anything much different than what he's always said, always. You know, like you know again, we live in a generation where I believe that the overall nasaian that we have is a nasaian of Amr. And again, khazal even say that you know the generation where we're from. We're going to struggle with Amr. Now we can say technology, etc, etc. But it's all boils down to Amr. And because when you believe in God, we believe the Torah is true and Khazal is true and the Torah doesn't change and you don't change. It's when the times change and when there's, you know, everything you look around is people trying to change.

34:59 You know whether it's just. You know how do you identify? or who could you marry The whole world? just change, change, change. And the Torah says don't change, don't say don't change. That's what he believed. We don't change, we adapt. Maybe we don't change, you know again. So maybe he would adapt to the current world or help us, but not with change. And there's a big difference. You know we don't change. The Amr of Hashem has to be, you know, like he. Yadosh Amr says right. What does that mean? It doesn't mean faith. It means steady, steady His hands were steady.

35:40 It means that no matter what life throws at us, we're steady. You know. It says you know. There's a word they say we have to be. You said Var. You said Var. But it's not from him. Oh, okay, good. The part that the Veld says you have to, because also you have to eat the Torah, which I'm asking you when you get to the Shabbat of Islam, right? When you got the Shemaim, they're going to ask you if you're going to eat the Torah, right. So what is the word? eat, Timmy? You know Subhani Th Pushan, the gift Right, or ace later, What's eat them? Eat them on Tyra. Yeah, some say you know it's eat them plural once a day, by night, but it was, should it say, a covata's man later, right, So there's a variety. They say now it's referring to you know, in Kahala's you have ace ace Muhammad, ace ace shalom, ace ace lahoy base.

36:26 This night is a person's life is full of eat them, with different situations, different lives, different Turk has different terrorist. That we have is always eat them and the question was you could be eat them with Tyra, no matter What's going on in your life. Were you steady? That's the whole part of Kabeh eat the means in the matter. What's going on in your life? Right, a bad day, a good day, a bad hair day, a good hair day. You know you have a have a wedding you have a Levi right, but always don't forget to learn right. That's the steadiness of Tyra, that they get demands for us, of Chama'a, and that I believe is is a Offshoot of this Amunah that I'm talking about, that he spoke about. I think that Amunah means steady, steady, steady, steady. Whoever you are, you got to keep being that person throughout whatever's going on in life.

37:09 Got to be that person every month. So you got to be that person in every situation. Where life's good, we're, life's not so good, right, we're. Everywhere you have a job and over job, but whatever's going on in life, got to hold on to that money that you hold their moon, i mean to hold on to a sham, holding on to the Tyra. You're holding on to chazal and again, that doesn't change That's. That's true in 1936 and it's true in 2036. No, wow, so you believe that he would? he would Preach to the masses not to change, in the, in the faces, in the face of uncertainty and the winds of change. I think so. Yeah, again, that's. You know, in Yeshua, speak that would be hold on to the Messiah, hold on to the MS, Hold on to the hold on to the Tyra, hold on to what our obeying taught us.

37:51 You know it doesn't change. You know it looks differently, it's packaged differently, but it can't change. This is the problem. Today, people are changing where we're allowing Change to happen. I mean, you know That's, that's not the way you know right, We got it. We got to hold on to the truth. Truth doesn't change. Truth can change right, right. Truth cannot change by definition. That's right And that's what he was a man of truth. He's a man that sought the truth. He's a man that that that lived his life by the truth. He's a man of thought the truth. He's a man who, who you know, nothing that wasn't true, you know worked with him. No, he, he was a mavakish. I am as that's, ms where mooner goes together, ms where moon.

38:33 All back to him. Wow, wow, wow. It definitely brings to mind. I mean, i just learned a piece from a Biroch that he's talking about, where Rashi said that When, even if a person has finished all of Tyra, still he shouldn't leave to go study other. You want to say this mountain be dainier, lady. Like I'm a little, i like you, boss, and I'm a finish and I finish over. Be your hope says Why doesn't seem right, like if you are finished, then let's be real. Then you're finished like a truth-seeking individual like he was. It's over. So and he goes into. He says because there's something called absorption And there's something called making something one with you and habituation. And the more you do something and you don't change, it becomes into your soul and it gets into your sick and it just becomes part of you and and he, he actually learns.

39:21 It's like a mitzvah to be a fire. So I think he pretty much learns this. This possible when? when I think it's the, the Navi, is sharia, maybe. You says that the, the Eden are just you know they're, they're doing their mitzvahs, are not? she, me, loomada, did the road, i believe in that piece have to look it up. He says that the not be meant to say all these people, like the first couple, works in the positive. All these people are just dabbing and they're learning, but they're, but they're just doing it by. You know, habitually, he says and then I'll be changed, it's not working because they need to be doing it. I'm not sure, mother, it's a good thing. I'm not sure, mother, i'm pretty sure that he learns as a. Okay, i mean I maybe I'm off, but I believe it could be, and I don't recall that piece, and I'm not a bucky in this area, any means.

40:11 I mean. I know a little bit here and there but, The next time it definitely makes sense that you know we got a. You know again nobody said, she do the road. You know. You know, if you just do like the public says, you know, yes, i'm, says the Libby Balima, i mean you just they have a little, a lot of us now what we want. But yes, we do do things because my father said so, because my Zeta said so. My fat might know my father. A lot of times I ask him why we do something. That's what my father did, why he do it? because that's what his father did. That's you know but I've run a venus did. Yeah, we have a messiah. We have a messiah, you know, i'm sorry, goes back to your home, to the Alton Kellam, to the Legend, that to the guy. And I mean this, this is, this is our misery. You know, most of us play Shiva.

40:53 We go back, our misery goes to the guy. But anyone a class that was sort of goes back and see them go back to the ball's jam. You got a cut, you got a comfort. No, you want to go anywhere in life. You got a comfort. So Wow, let's put that on a t-shirt Right. Finishing up here. Just have a couple of other really personal questions. Hopefully the audience will enjoy them as well. But further in the safer Dastaira there is Ma'amurim and the Biorim. What's the difference between those two? again. So the The Biorim were really that was a sheer that I was telling you about that he gave to the Short pieces. You know he learned to come as ration, come as ration, bussing that, bussing Ma'amurim, or of a schmoozing that he gave and those he probably gave to them also, but more of a schmooze, you know setting rather than a vod setting.

41:45 So the Biorim were like Vod setting and my mom were more of a schmooze setting. You know, i don't know the short fact. I'm assuming that he gave them schmoozing as well. You know more. You know that level, you know. I got it. I got it, i got it. Um, okay, i'm pretty much rounds out the, the you know, the, the main points I wanted to get to. there's a couple other things It's just were, were rumors, and I'm really probably shouldn't say, but I mean I saw oh, this was something else that I was gonna ask you about. It's somebody in the love of its family do a shit up with With, with Rob Shlomo Carl Bach, is that true?

42:27 Absolutely. Rep Simcha Zissel, my great uncle who worked in. Yeah, who wrote all the ruch was far. He married. My great aunt slamas callbuff was Shlomo callbuff. Sister, absolutely. So how does the time work out with? with meaning Ruby's role obviously passed away before? Not a be sure. Right that's the way. 20 or 20, so much years ago, um, he was my he. He was, uh, actually, when he was nifter. Interestingly, he was supposed to be them, no, he was slated to take over his slaughter, the machine, but he was too young at the time, so they actually sent them to call him first, and then the war broke out. Then that whole no thing.

43:09 But when he came back to America he married Shlomo's callbuff. Wow, that's pretty cool. What else, if? one other thing maybe perhaps you could share with the audience that isn't well known about, about my arena. Oh, how much gear, how levy I. Oh, I should tell you something that's not known. Oh, perhaps there's a story, something that we were not going to get into general. We don't give much credence to the stories. It wasn't a story. Stories would be pretty boring. You know what I mean? It's the mensch. It's what he was and what he taught them, what he personified. It's not the mysim or the stories. He was what he was.

43:51 He was a calmer. Everyone was the same thing every day, you know what I'm saying Just did it better, the Altam Kala would say. When it came to Yemen, arayam, he would say everyone says I'm going to be better, i'm going to be better. He says don't be. I'll say it in English Don't be better, be different. Dainese besa zay andesh To be better. You know what happens to be better. Then a few days later you're unbetter. The point of Yemen, arayam is to change. It's to zay andesh, make a little, little tiny change. That's what it's all about. I'll tell you something interesting. I don't know why I just thought about this, but he has an interesting link. Rabbi Rukham himself never in his life shaved. He always. He writes somewhere that he doesn't believe that shaving is correct, even though the literature world over there, everyone did shave.

44:35 He writes that if I would have the strength I would have polished this whole shaving thing, because he felt that a Yitzh wouldn't shave. Why You think of a reasoning. He writes me myself. I never in my life touched my beard. I guess he felt that's the. You know, you got to look like a Jew too. You know, obviously there's a reason why the Benetirah you know it was, it was it was they started shaving and looking the way they did because they were fighting Hasqala At the time. Hasqala was making inroads, believe it or not, even into the, into our places. You know, the Khabitzchaim himself was almost caught by the Hasqala. We all know that right, yeah, but I had to believe. But so one of the ways that the Qadda'z of that time, you know, dealt with Hasqala was they. They figured that if, if the Bukham looked more put together and matter like that it would, it would stop the, the fights and the and the deriding of the Benetirah looking, looking on camp or whatever it was.

45:26 You know what I mean But at some he didn't believe that Bukham, that Jews should shave you know Why? Because it's because it's meaning it's also funny, yeah. Because I, i mean it's surreal. the surreal of a year like this is the face Yeah. The surreal of a year. it's with a beard, It's no question about that, as if, like Avram Avvinu had a beard. We're going to say Of course. So you know he shaved, i mean. I mean I don't know that to be a fan. I mean, we all know that Khamqaniyashvili was very much against shaving and you know, and they even from the literature, literature. You know it was out there that we shave, but he had this thing. I saw the letter once.

46:06 You know he wrote that and, interestingly, you know, unlike also unlike other literature, she was at the time if you came to the mirror, let's say, from a Hasidic background, you were wearing long, you had a beard. He would never let you change out of that. You know he was very much. If your misery is is to wear the long because of your Hasidish, you got to hold on to your misery. You know what I mean. He didn't let them come here and then adapt, so to speak, no stories of people who before they came, they changed, knowing that once they come you wouldn't let them change. You know, right, even in Pchatskola. Pchatskola came from a Hasidic background, believe it or not. But you know yeah sure He was a publisher.

46:47 Right, right, and he heard one one drasha right from about Cheles right. He heard it in a rod, way back in a rod and he got hooked and he just went where he said it became a rugby, you know. Right, i read in the Michitsas that Rybrychum spoke that time about the Chazal. tell you that you're supposed to see your blue Cheles, and that's supposed to show you that it's supposed to think of the blue water, to think of the blue sky, think of the Almighty's throne. And. Rybrychum asked. He says Chazal wanted to see a color, a color just blue. And I think he said you have to see colors with your Rybny's glasses and if you're not learning Musur then it's impossible. Lmi, we have to learn Musur. That's how I heard the drasha was Okay makes sense.

47:29 It's in their shadows. Okay so let's finish up here In regards to just the end of his life. He passed away. It sounds like he was rather young. I think he was in his 60s. He was very young, he was 62. He got sick and, yeah, and he unfortunately passed away at the age of 62, yeah. And then he is survived by how many kids? and tell me, let's deal with kids, and tell me to as quick as possible. Well, all this on. Rybysherel was already married for the war and he was in Vilna in the Aramaic of the Hashivas. He was not with the Hashivas. He got killed by the Nazis, mahshimah Mbazikram, and his wife and his three kids, meir Rukham and Lea Shem'i, and.

48:12 Kumbh Dhamma. After that he had Rabbi Abram, rabbi Mashi'alay, rabbi Simhazissel, where his three sons surviving sons who came to America, and his one daughter, chassi, who was married to Rabbi Shereb. Yisrael Chayim Kaplan, and another Kaplan, meshbachli, another Tali Kaplan, which he visited Talmud. Then he had three Kaplans everyone knows him three Kaplans and she's been at Israel. It's the next generation of Kaplans. That's all from his daughter. Oh, wow, i didn't know that I didn't make that connection Interesting. And Talmudim, who are? it sounds like the Talmudim are Reblay, malin and Rebchatskol. and who's the foremost? who's got the messiah?

48:52 I don't know, i don't know foremost, not foremost, but Talmudiyas, like you said, reblay Malin was definitely, was the, was the, was the lion of the group, but yeah, did the Aseelim, and I didn't make it out and he had the full burn bomb. He had Rebchim and Shua Pashlam Evalbe you know Reb, what's the name? Reb Rezal, feinstein, lech and Amir, i mean all all the list goes on. Rebchim and Pabashki was probably one of his closest, if not the closest, talmud. You know the Rashi'va, panavish, these were all all his Talmudim, yeah. It definitely seems like Rebvalda has kind of the messiah in Chinuch from Revalba and again. Revalda, interestingly, yet no, there's no question.

49:33 I mean, revalba was from Germany, he was definitely part of the group, that was no, you know, the Icelanders, so to speak. But he definitely got a very, very strong influence and he, you know, he took, you know he lived that the rest of his life and he, you know everything, he did everything. That sort of Revalba was Rebrychim. That's all he lived. You know, there's no question. But again, there was various levels of Talmud and some of them went the Mus'arut, so to speak, and some of them went the Rashi'va Ruts. You know, because they, you know, we know them from Mus'arut. But the Mir was Tyra, you know, the Mir was Tyra, you know, the greatest of the great. I mean Shanghai, they sat in Shanghai, they learned.

50:14 I mean these people, you know, there's no way to describe these people. You know these people were I remember Sholash Gottlieb I'm in Salabag the ones who eventually became the Rashi'vism because the Talmud were, you know, after the war, it wasn't really a Rashi'v or a Shashi'v, it started just a group of old Bakhim together and eventually the old Bakhim gave Khabur and then eventually they became Rashi'vism, as it was. But these, you know, they were great, they were great people. You know, in Tyra and Midas and Tfila especially that's one thing with Mir was excel, that that it wasn't just Tyra, it was Tfila was a component. There's no Tyra without Tfila. Ruhum's very big with that. You know, when someone came to Fahera in the Mir and everyone asked him so when did your day start?

51:00 and he would say from first aid he goes no, from Shachur. If there's no Shachur, there's no first aid. You can't come here if you're not going to keep the storm, which means Shachur. You know Tfila was a very big component in the Mir. It was like B'chatsk would talk about it a lot like. You know, there's no Tyra without Tfila, there's no Tfila without Tyra. Right, right, wow, wow. And I know Elul was famous for Elul, correct? Well, of course Elul. I mean the older Bali Muslim were famous for Elul, which was Salantu. There was no one to say. You know, when Elul comes, even the fish in the water tremble right Right right. Not American but Did he change his schedule? Did he change his schedule during Elul? It seems like he maybe spoke more during Elul. He probably did yeah, i don't remember exactly.

51:42 He probably did and he probably also did Elul. In Calum they did the Oghuz Khan La Rush, which is actually, you know, we're in the middle of my. WhatsApp share. We're actually doing Oghuz Khan La Rush now. We gave a whole introduction about that, but how the Bali Muslim valued that safer tremendously. Right, and I would like to explicitly point out to the audience that if they would like to be a part of that, they should definitely click the link in the description. I am on it and you definitely get a piece of Rabbi Ruch in there and it's daily and it's tadiar and it's like have a Zakhatasa by bike or Zakhatasa by Nara Bayim. It's definitely. Interesting. We started it when our time was nifty. We started our Qasayi Shire, sure.

52:25 I remember that for sure, yeah. A, two, three minute share and B'ar Khashami. You know hundreds of people joined up and it's, you know, i like it keeps me on my toes and if I can inspire people even a little bit, like maybe a marbequat shemaim and bring a little more immunity to this world, that lacks it very much. You know that's more as close, you know. That's it. That's it. So we can definitely say in conclusion that Meirenu Hamashkiach Rukham Levavit, who has Yartzay? correct me if I'm wrong it's Khay Sivan and it's the 87th Yartzay right. That many years since he's been gone 1936, do the math 1936, and he was a man who saw truth and he was a man who was helping out every single one of his B'chim and connecting even some of the weaker or the ones that didn't merit to have the same background and learn Khumish Rashi with them.

53:17 give Droshas prepare them build them. And might we finish with a this all the Tyra and the Hashgafa and the inspiration that will go to people should go up and be in Aliyah for his Nashama Amen. I know that it comes from a Hakkara Satay point, just from myself just how much she's given me and my family And I would most definitely want to express tremendous gratitude that you gave this time to the audience. I know that you are very busy and I know that you have a lot of horizon obligations to the cloud, to the general public, and therefore this time is.

53:58 I am very thankful for it And also I would definitely like to tell the audience that they should smash the link below in order to listen, because they will not regret it And if you have any parting words, the four is yours. No, that's it. Thank you very much. It's a pleasure speaking with you. It's always a pleasure listening to you when I get a chance, and you ,, have many liches be , nd keep spreading have a lot of the Shema'ya your mind because that's what it's all about. Amen, amen, thank you. Until then, have a good night Amen.