From Newlyweds to Golden Years: Rabbi Shafier's Marital Advice

Bechazde Hashem Yusbara. It is with great excitement that we welcome the great Rabbi Shaffer in to the podcast. Most of you probably already know that name from Rabbi Shaffer's platform, the Shmooz website of teaching Torah and Muser ideas at a very large scale and also based on the new bestselling book Ten Really Dumb Mistakes that Very Smart Couples Make. And the book promises to be a Torah-based guide to a successful marriage. And well, the book helped me. It's Torah-based and it is a masterpiece. So, without further ado, welcome Rabbi Shaffer to the podcast. Thank you, my pleasure to be here. So I know that most of the olam, most of the audience, does know Rabbi Shaffer, but it may, I think, perhaps if the Rav could just maybe give a short introduction as to what the Shmooz is, how it came to be, and perhaps a little bit about the Rav's background and how the book came to be, just to kick it off.

Sure, Okay. So I began as a high school Rebbe. I was in Khovetzheim, Yashiva, for many years and I was a high school Rebbe in Rochester and many years ago, the Roshiva's itself, I believe it was asked me to start a Tres Benetor, which was an organization for the working guys. These were guys who have been in Yashiva and maybe they learned a lot, maybe they learned very little. The common side was they were now in the workforce and the Roshiva's itself felt there was nothing for them. So the Shmooz really began as sort of a lightning rod. Then we had Kola Bokas, we had morning programs, live programs, various programs. It was in Queens Brook, the Munty, and the Shmooz was really the central port of that and that was really my involvement. And the Shmooz kind of grow into its own entity. And this is really 20 years now. Wow, 20 years in the making, Wow, yeah. Yeah, I know I'm only 39. It's amazing, isn't it? But the Khaze Hashem it's still around and that's really where it came to be.

Wow, the Shmooz functions as just a website. Is it an app?

So the Shmooz we have the Shmoozcom, the Shmooz app, the Shmooz podcast. The idea is Ashkafah Muser basics, all the thinking questions that are from Jews should be asking, should be dealing with why does Shem create me? What's life about Really dealing with Amunah Bittachon, all of the issues that we should be dealing with. That's what the Shmooz deals with and it really is in many different formats, many different ways books, etc.

The Shmooz is focused on Tevrey Muser and inspiration and Amunah and Bittachon. So with business successful and people learning Tyra at a very large scale. So why the left turn to the talk of the book, which, for anyone that doesn't know, about Shalom Bayez and keeping harmony in the home.

Right, okay, it's a fair question. So really, as a Shmooz began growing, I became sort of the center point for many of the issues Guys who come to the problems issues. Now, when we began the questions were innocent enough and the issues they were dealing with was simple enough. But as the guys starting getting married and they started bringing in marriage questions, you know again in the first few years it was also again they were innocent questions how do we deal with my mother-in-law, how do we deal with this problem? And I felt you know able to deal with them. I was a few years older, I'd gone through some of life already. It wasn't a problem. But as the Hebra got older, the questions became more deep and the issues became far more intractable and I found myself in a very interesting dilemma. A couple would come to me with a problem in the marriage and I didn't have a clue what the problem was, how to deal with it, how to solve it. At the time I'd been married maybe 15 years or so In Berkshire. We're happily married. But you know, to understand how to sort of analyze someone else's marriage, what's going wrong and how to repair it wasn't something I was equipped with and really, to be honest with you, in the first few years we lost quite a number of those couples. You know there were a lot of divorces and I found myself in a terrible situation where they would come to me as a dastor. They would come to me for my advice and I didn't have a clue. So I would take couples to marriage councils, marriage therapists and, to be honest with you, many marriage therapists have less of a knowledge than I did. So I began studying, I began learning, I began getting into this and again, initially I can't say that everything I said was rocket science. But when you deal with hundreds and hundreds of couples and after many years you start studying what works and what doesn't work, and you read the khazals and you read the books and you begin putting together certain ideas, after a while I felt I got a pretty good handle on why marriages succeed and why they fail and, more importantly, what they really need for a couple to be happily married. Now, along the way, this was sort of an experience of me I would deal with couples who come into my office and often time my jaw would drop, I would hear my wife over here and they'd be saying things that I'd say to myself there's no way in the world that they can understand the damage that they're bringing to this marriage. There's no way she can understand, no way he can understand. There's no way rational people would wreck their marriage this way. I don't get it. But when you see couple after couple making the same dumb mistakes, I began to realize I get it. It's clearly not so obvious and the 10 really dumb mistakes that very smart couples make grew out of my informal marriage counseling marriage practice. I'm not a marriage therapist, I'm not a marriage counselor, but again, after dealing with hundreds and hundreds of couples and I still to this day I'll see a couple one time I sort of give them some direction. I'm not a marriage therapist by profession, I don't make my living this way. But after seeing enough of it, you begin to put the patterns together, begin to put the ideas together, and what you do is, hopefully, you give some direction and advice. And that's really what the book is direction and advice, how to live a happier marriage than most many people do.

To jump on that. If the Ruv has the messiah right and the Ruv obviously has a successful marriage and things are working out, what change? Why couldn't it just be well, be nice to your spouse and stop leaving your socks on the floor and let's, come on, be like a regular schmooze?

Right, right, right. So I guess you'd be right in theory. But the problem is that life has changed dramatically, both since I was a young man and certainly you know, and you look back in 1950s, united States America. Those are happy days. A young man would marry a young woman. They'd buy a house and a suburbs with a white picket fence, 1.5 kids, anda, dog and live married happily ever. After those days are gone, times are changing and we no longer live in those times and marriages change dramatically. The amount of time that a young couple will spend together. You know let me start this way Every marriage needs an adjustment. There's an adjustment period learning to live with another person, learning to learn different quotes, you know, basically basic tendencies, quirks, different gender differences. So, no matter when you got married, there was an adjustment period and there was strife and issues. But in the good old days number one there was time both parties understood divorce wasn't an option. Once divorce became an option, immediately both parties are heading for the doors. And number two we're dealing at a time where people are extraordinarily self-centered and I have to be honest with you also, developmentally, emotionally, no longer as robust, no longer as resilient as it had been, and I have to tell you, marriages now don't last the speed of the divorce. I believe the land speed record was recently set. A fellow called me up. He said right well, you have to help me and my daughter's recently got married and they're having a lot of trouble. Please, please help me. It was a sport of the schmooze. I said fine. Anyway, the Hussein contacted me that night. He said listen, we can't meet tonight because we're still finishing Chevrolet Brokers, but we can meet Wednesday night. I said oh, my goodness, I mean they weren't out of.

Chevrolet.

Brokers, and we're already dealing with the kind of stuff that, like you know, we're not here six years into a marriage. So what I'm going to tell you it seems to be very common now that the problem is beginning to begin surfacing way earlier, way deeper, and there's very little shoulder to the road. You either get it right away or, unfortunately, it becomes very, very dangerous and very damaging.

So, once you started to see that the questions are coming in and something needs to be done, more information needs to be acquired and delivered to the couples and something needs to be fixed when specifically did the Rav? Where did you turn for that?

Kachma. So I learned my Rabbi, the Rashi'vah Z'al. Rabbi Libowitz was a tremendous pikeach and a Balmoussa and he taught us the Sodus of Musa. I had the opportunity to learn some about marriage from the Rashi'vah Z'al because I was a young married when the Rashi'vah still was healthy and well and teaching and I did consult. But to be honest with you, it really had to be learned the hard way because unfortunately the Rashi'vah Z'al passed away now quite a number of years ago and I was still a young man. So a lot of the knowledge and a lot of it was gained just simply by being out there. Again, reading, dealing, understanding and really understanding. You know a lot of it are basics. Once you get it and I'm sure if you read the book you'll see you begin to put the pattern together gender differences. Once you understand that a man is significantly different than a woman and you understand in what ways everything starts making sense. You start putting things together. Once you understand what a marriage needs, the etsim, the relationship needs and what is required, you begin to sort of like you fill in the dots. It becomes sort of clear and obvious. So really a lot of what I did was just sort of again learn the Huzal's, read various marriage books that are out there to secular again. Pretty much every popular marriage book that's out there I believe I've read and you know, eventually you put together ideas, eventually you sort of sort things through and eventually, hopefully, you put together something that makes sense and is able to allow a couple to live happily ever after and once the information, once you feel like you had the answer, the first place that you went was to put a book out. So initially I began giving shure, you know, because the shrews is, you know, has a certain platform. So I put together the marriage seminar, which is a 12 part. You know, it's an audio lecture on how to live a happily marriage. I put that out and it became popular. I gave that a few times in public, I was speaking various places and after a while, you know, it became clearer, more and more clear to me that young couples especially don't have a clue and what happens is they get married without having a clue and they don't learn along the way because they make the same mistakes. They assume oh it's my husband, oh it's my wife, forget about it. And they never learn. Everybody wants to be happily married. No one wants to be in a miserable marriage or even in a lackluster marriage. The problem is what could I do? It's my husband, it's my wife, what could I? What's stuck? Getting married today is not a simple business at all. Everyone comes in with so much of a sense of entitlement. Everyone comes in with so much of a sense of it's me without me. It's what I call WIFM. Everyone's tuned into that radio session. What's in it for me? And when you come in with great emotional fragility. When you come in with tremendous sense of entitlement and you come in with the understanding that this is going to be beautiful, my wife is going to serve my every need, my husband is going to solve my every emotional problem, you come in with ready for disaster. The book was my attempt to bring some shed some light, bring some understanding and let people understand what's needed so you can correct it. Now don't get me wrong, paul. I want you to understand something and many, many people call me up, robert Schaefer. Can you help me? Robert Schaefer, I have this problem, I say. The first question I ask is did you read the book? No, would you read the book? No, why not? Come on, I need a solution. The problem is obvious, my wife. The problem is obvious Get with the program. Let me be very clear If you're unwilling to work, you will not be successfully married. I don't care how good you Midos are, I don't care how good your family is. If you're unable to change, if you're unable to grow, you will fail in marriage period. But even if you're ready to work, and even if you're really ready and have the emotional fortitude to really change, unless you know what the work is, you're going to fail Because unless you know what needs to be changed, what needs to be dealt with, how you need to speak, what you need to say, when you need to say, you're not going to know what you're doing. You don't drive a car without lessons. In California, it takes six months and a tremendous amount of preparation to take a course to be a barber. But to get married you take a test 20 bucks and you're ready. It's very sad that in our society there isn't a lot more preparation for marriage and, believe me, the parents spend an untold amount of money on the wedding and the prep and the gifts. But how about preparing the chastan and kala for what they're going to be in, the relationship that they're going to be in for the rest of life, hopefully? Unfortunately, is very little time spent. So bottom line is you've got to work but you have to know what you're doing. And again, the book and the video book is my attempt to give some DAS and DEA to what needs to be done.

This was very interesting to me. There are 10 really dumb mistakes that smart couples make, and I'm interested to hear how the road got down to just 10 and what sticks out by these mistakes.

Okay so, to be honest with you, it was difficult to parse it down to 10. I really had to. There are more, but these are the 10 most glaring, most common and more than that, and the most damaging. Let's deal with one that's so obvious. Very often a couple, whether the husband or the wife, wants to help their spouse because they're good people, right, and so I can't help but notice what my spouse does wrong, and I point it out because, listen, I'm concerned, I want my spouse to be better, I want them to improve. So I can't help but point out what it is they do wrong. And what I don't understand is the damage that I brought to the relationship. And now the word criticism should be eradicated from any relationship, but especially the closer the relationship, the more it's damaging, the more it's destructive. But criticism doesn't mean I am criticizing you. Criticism means anything where I point out that you could be better, you could improve, you're not doing properly, and the husband and wife can't help but notice what each other does wrong. Listen, you're living in a closest proximity, you have a tremendous amount of things to do one with the other, and more than that, you're by nature, different people. So it's always going to be my strength and my spouse's weakness. That's going to be most glaring to me. So, for instance, let's assume for a minute I'm very neat and my spouse isn't. I'm very punctual and my spouse isn't. Now, clearly, to me, punctuality and neatness is a key criteria and I believe much of my success is due to it, and therefore I can't help but notice that my spouse is not. And because she's not and I care for her, I'm going to want to point it out to her, I'm going to want to explain it to her, and I can't help but notice how often she's not on time or she's not neat, and it's costing her time, efficiency, it's costing the house, it's costing us embarrassment, and so I can't help but repeat and repeat and repeat how many times she would do better, it would be better, and what I'm not recognizing is the damage I'm bringing to the relationship. You see, this one single criteria, because it's my strength and my spouse's weakness. And not only can I not help but notice it, but I can't even understand why doesn't she just change? It's so easy for me, it's so easy for me to be on time, it's so easy for me to be neat. Why don't you just do it as well. Obviously you don't care, obviously you don't love me, obviously, whatever you obviously is. But the simple reality that there's a different human being with different tendency, different interests, different inclinations than I never seems to cross my mind. And this is probably one of the biggest mistakes that very small couples make and we become experts at what our spouse does wrong. Understanding my job is to be a best friend. The best friend supports, the best friend is helpful, the best friend sees the best and only the best, and the best friend is encouraging and not critical is a very, very important ingredient for successful marriage. And it's so, it's so corrosive to the relationship because if you're not careful about it, it'll be there all the time, every time, and after a while your wife, your husband, whatever he realizes this person really doesn't approve of me, doesn't love me, doesn't really respect me, and the marriage very quickly heads south.

The fourth mistake forgetting that respect comes first. It caught my attention where it's presented in the book with a Ram Bam and Yadah Chazakha Hilchaz Isho's Perak Teshbav. This is a safer halacha, this is an insight on the Ram Bam, where you have a diuk, an inference in the Ram Bam, and you therefore put forth a khedish, your own approach. I'd like to give the floor to the Robb to give this over in all of its glory.

Okay, so I'm going to do it, not from the Ram Bam. I want to tell you a story and I think the story will illustrate it even better. You have a young couple walking down the street. He's on this side, she's on this side as they're walking, he trips. As he trips, she says are they, are you okay? Are you all right? That's scene one. Let's look at scene two. Same couple walking down the street as they're walking down, he trips and she says what? What's wrong with you Can't even walk down the street. What's the difference between scene one and scene two? What do you say?

Maybe five years of marriage, one year and five years in.

Scene one is when the Chosen and Kala. Scene two is when they're married already three years and this is the asso. You see, it's very easy to be respectful to other people and I'm outside, I'm on my best behavior. I brush my hair before I go out, I straighten my tie because I know I'm in the public eye. But when I come home, suddenly I act myself and maybe even way too much myself. Now, you can't be formal in a marriage. You have to be comfortable and you have to be yourself. But you also have to remember that respect comes first. I cannot tell you how many times I hear a couple speak to each other. I'm going to say that's crazy, as I've ever heard she would have just done, utterly done. You guys like each other, love each other. When you speak that way to your spouse not meaning to be harmful, not meaning but it damages the relationship so understanding that respect comes first. Now the Rambam is telling us that you're so in how to act and it's so in a marriage. But it's something that you have to focus on and remember and see on a daily basis. And you have to remember it because, again, in the heavy traffic of life, if you're not very cautious and very guarded it's going to come out and, by the way, I have an important muscle exercise. I believe the biggest, one of the greatest damages of our generation is that device called the phone, and whatever type of phone you have, but especially with the smartphone. However, there is one app on the smartphone, and probably even on a regular phone, that I believe is very useful. It's called the tape recorder. If you record a conversation between yourself and your spouse and you play back the conversation afterwards and listen very carefully, asking yourself one question am I as respectful to my spouse as I am to other people? Am I as nice to my spouse as I am to other people and do I speak with the same regard to my spouse as I do to other strangers? And there's a bot who likes to tell a joke. It's a wedding joke, so it's done a couple of finding. He says the phone rings Hello, oh hi how are? you, oh great. Thank you so much for calling Hang on. What happened? What happened is we know how to behave very well outside the home. Well, that's great, but you have to remember that it's even more important to behave that way in the home. But it requires focus. You see, I'm not meaning to and good people with good me dose If you don't carefully check yourself, if you don't guard yourself and you're going to slip down that slippery slope. So a tape recorder is a very good idea, but not to find what your spouse is doing wrong, to find where you're slipping up. How can I be more respectful, how can I be more appreciative? How can I speak in a way that will be better received? So in that sense, I think the tape recorder is a good, good, good device.

In the introduction to the book. One of the haskamos is from Rabbi Per, I believe the rest of the of why FR is Shiva for a way, and he writes there that the Rabi Strel Salant are the great inaugurator and the founder of the Musser movement. He writes that marriage is the laboratory for one's meadows. And when it comes to this idea of the laboratory of marriage, what happened was that before marriage you never had to live in such close proximity. You were never a magnifying glass, my have Rusa. You know if I didn't respond nicely even to his svara and the Gamara, it was, you know it was okay. So there's a clear difference that the rough suggests, though between respect to one's wife and respect to one's husband. Can you elaborate on that?

Okay. So this is really a major trapping in marriage. When you tell a woman I want you to respect your husband, she begins treating her husband with respect, as she would respect one of her friends. So I'll give you a classic example. If you're not aware that men and women are different, let me let you in on the clue, A secret men and women are different, but they're not topically different, they're not slightly different, they're different in every imaginable way, shape and form. They're different in interest of, different inclination, different in what they enjoy, what they're interested in. One of the key distinctions is how they operate and what they perceive as respectful behavior. So watch, here's a good example. A woman is baking cookies and her friend sees how she's doing it and she realizes that she would change the recipe or do things this way. It'll be more efficient. Naturally, because she's a good person and a caring person, she shares with her friend how she could do even better. But listen, your cookies are great, but if you would do X, Y and Z, it'd be even better. When she says those words, it's set out of love and concern, and a friend receives it that way. Okay, good. So I say to a woman, let's say you watch a guy changing a tire and you go over to him and say, hey, buddy, if you held the wrench this way, it'd be more efficient, you'd work better. What do you think his response is going to be? Oh, thank you so much for pointing that out. I think you're asking for a fist fight. Why is it? Because males do not appreciate unsolicited advice. Hey, listen, I got this. If I needed help, I'd ask for it. There's someone in my distant family, a woman, who, when she comes into the house, I try to leave. Why? Because she's so helpful. Man, I'm a little nervous. I got another time. I chose, I got this. I'm matured, I don't. She wants to help. That's very nice. Help you, all your girlfriends, Help all your late, but do me a favor. It's not well received. And if a woman doesn't learn to recognize that her husband is built differently than she is and what he considers respectful is very different than what she will consider respectful, if she doesn't learn his ins and outs, guess what? It's going to get very rough. But she's so nice and she's like why does he get all upset at me? All I do is point out how much better he can be at all he's doing because I love him. That's very nice and very sweet, but you're rubbing salt in his wounds. You're basically pouring vinegar into his eyes. I didn't do anything bad what I do. So unless you understand the basic differences between men and women, you're going to do many things in your marriage thinking you're doing good things, not recognizing the damage you're going to do. And one of the key distinction between men and women is respect. But it doesn't just stop there. It comes across the entire gamut of the human condition and you have to really learn to be a student of your spouse. By the way, one of the two most important words in a marriage, the hardest word to say in a marriage, is I was wrong, I wasn't right. I know I was wrong, she knows I was wrong. I know she knows I was wrong, but I can't say the word. So those have a short of hardest words to say. However, the most important words in a marriage are the words that's strange. That's strange. And the next time your spouse does something very, very inexplicable and we get angry, we get upset and we say things. If you're training yourself to say that's strange and you might learn to step back and then, with scientific curiosity, ask yourself this question why would you do that? She's a nice, kindly person. Why would she act so cruel? Why would she act so mean? When you step back and say to yourself that's strange, what you do is you open yourself up to actually understand the fundamentals of the emotional makeup of your spouse. But let me caution you. You say the words that's strange to yourself. You say that's strange and then you ask yourself is my husband a creep? No, Is he an evil guy? No, so why would he act so cruel and callous? The answer is maybe because he has a different experience than I, Maybe because he perceives things differently than I do and maybe because he means something totally different with what he said than the way I would mean when I said it. And when you step back and say that's strange, you begin to open yourself up to understand the emotional world of your spouse. So those words that's strange but said to yourself are one of the key expressions in a successful marriage.

To be. It feels like the most sort of idea is to be at least mocked. Something's going on here, and maybe I should take a deep breath and think about this more.

Yeah, and to recognize that my experience is the way I experience things. But my experience doesn't define reality. You will experience the very same phenomenon in a different way. You'll experience the same events and you'll feel about it differently. You'll look at it differently and you'll have a different approach. All you have to do is speak to a chavrusa. There was a chavrusa I learned for five years. There was no question in my mind that he would say things specifically to get me angry. I said things that were so ridiculous so I landed. I knew for a fact he could only be saying it to get me angry. The problem was, 60% of the time he was right. And well, why is it? Each human mind is different, as my face is different than your face. Gazelle tells us my mind is different, my mind meaning to say the way I look at things, the way I perceive things, the way I think about things. So two men of the same gender who learn together, are going to look at the same thing and view it totally differently. Can you imagine how much more so when it's a man and a woman who are opposite in nature, different tendencies, inclination and the essence of who they are, and they both live through the same phenomena, they're going to view it very differently. And unless you're able to step back and say that's strange, why would my wife, who's normally nice and good, why would she act that way and why would she carry on that way? Why, why? So unless I'm able to step back and ask myself that question, I'm going to reach some conclusions that are unfair. She's either, she's mean, she's nasty, or she's emotional wreck or whatever, whatever demonic phrase we put in there. But the point is to understand that my experience is the way I experience it, but that doesn't mean that my spouse shares that same experience is one of the keys to a successful marriage.

One of the most enjoyable anecdotes in the book that is, one that I bring up facetiously in my marriage quite often is the story of the couple that is visiting with you and when the husband walks out of the room and walks back in, the kala stands up for her husband. That's something that I've, you know, tried to enact in my life, but no respect you talk about respect.

Yeah, yeah, but did that go? How well did that go over?

I don't know.

That's so well, huh.

That's so well, huh, so here's a great secret.

You meet. When you learn to meet her needs, she'll desperately desire to meet your needs. I mean you have to understand what her needs are and she has to understand your needs and that's the learning part, that's the educational piece and that's the opening your eyes to understand life better part of it. But once you understand that and you learn to meet her needs, she will do everything in her power to meet your needs. Now again, the problem is without an education, each party doesn't understand what the other one needs and they provide for the opposite gender with their own way. I would like it and guess what? It's not the way she likes it. So, no matter how much I provide that and, by the way, one of the favorite anecdotes in the book that I still to the person who married 36 years and I mentioned this in the book and it's still ongoing Shabbat's morning typically I get up very early. The house is quiet. I learn it's a machaya. A few hours later in the morning I bring my wife a coffee in bed. She likes to have a coffee in bed To this day. I make the coffee and prepare the coffee. I reach in the refrigerator for the creamer and have to stop. Now I want to give my wife a good cup of coffee. Everyone knows that creamer makes it taste better. At least 4% fat milk you got to write. The skim milk doesn't even turn the yeah nothing Right. The problem is my wife doesn't like it. She likes her coffee with skim milk and to this day I have to. But I want to give her a good cup of coffee. Why can't you just taste it? It tastes so much better. But understanding that my experience doesn't define reality is a condition that we all have to learn. It's part of growth. And again, barchem, this is 36 years now, barchem. We're happily married. But I'm telling you, it's a constant ongoing process. So really it's two points. Even if you have good meadows and even if you only to work on it, if you don't understand the needs of your spouse, you can't possibly meet those needs and you're going to inadvertently cause a lot of damage, a lot of disruption to your marriage.

The entire book is in my mind when I think about it. It flashes back to the six. Really dumb mistake that is trying to change your spouse. At first I did not understand it, or perhaps agree with it, because, well, let's say that my wife is someone that you know she could use the chisok in this area. Why not a good misilastia shorim havrusa about the importance of X, Y or Z? And here you put forth in the book that do not help your wife or I'm just giving a. Obviously you can explain it better, but do not try to change them. Don't give them mustard shmuzim, Just accept and let it be. Please, please, explain this, because it is a hard one.

Okay. So let's begin with the following. Again, here's invariably what I need to change in my spouse. It's going to be in my strength and her weakness. So again, let's go back to the on time or late thing or the need, then the sloppy. I see how important it is, so I can't help but point it out. So here's the question. I pointed it out to my spouse and I made it clear and it's obvious to me why doesn't she just change? Why doesn't she just do it? I told my wife once, twice, three attend, 100 times. I thought why doesn't she just change? And the reason is because that's her nature. Inverably, what I want to change is a very essence of her temperament, her nature, inclination. People have ADD are just that's how the wired. And people who are very, you know, anxious, that's how the wired. They're not going to change. You have to work on it. If I'm better coping mechanisms, fine, I get it. But at the end of the day that's the nature of the person Almost always. What we're trying to change in our spouse is their very nature. And guess what? It's not going to change. But it's so easy for me, exactly Because that's your temperament, that's your wiring, that's how you're built and it's easy for you. And that's why because it's so easy for you you want to help your spouse change. But she's not built that way, she's not made that way and it's near impossible for her to change. And the more you point it out, the more you wreck the damage. See, it never changes the character trait and never changes the behavior. All it does is wreck the relationship. So I have a simple formula If you want to be happily married, either embrace your spouse as they are or you suffer. Because if you don't embrace her as she is, you're going to try to change, you're going to make every attempt in the world and all you're going to do is wreck the relationship. She's not going to change, but you're going to wreck the relationship. So I'm going to tell you, we all do it. It's just, it's a, it's endemic to the human condition. We need to change our spouse. We need to. But the quicker you grab yourself and the more you realize how ineffective it is, how unfair it is Because, again, it's always going to be my strength and my spouse's weakness and to be temperament. And when you realize that it can change, it's not going to change. It's not hard job to change. My job is to learn to embrace and accept her as she is, and the more you do that, the happier, or the more you don't do that, well, you pay the price.

It's an initially sort of depressing idea. That's what I found at the beginning.

Here it is.

I have, or it's, you know, let's, let's. The conversation so far has been from the view of the male on the female, but this is equally this whole conversation back way, from the female on the male. I mean it's not it's not empowering. Okay, so, Michael, there we go. Would you like to be happily married?

I would indeed. Yes, I have a critical muscle exercise. You need some courage, you need some more fortitude and this is one of the most critical muscle exercise for growth in any area. Are you ready? And yes, Okay, tomorrow morning you go over to a mirror in your house when no one's around and you look in the mirror and you point and you say these words I am a difficult person to live with. I am a difficult person to live with. I am a difficult person to say three times you mean my spouse and no, I wouldn't mean, I mean I'm not sure. No, Well, if you take will have interesting disease. I'll prove to you a difficult person to live with. And a shem created us imperfect, gave us the mission of growing, changing ourselves. Make yourself perfect, that's our job. If you were perfect, you'd be done your job here. Be, say, some of the shalom game over. Let's hope you still got work to do and you still got time to do it. And that that's a point when I recognize that I am a difficult person to live with. I'm not a, not a creep, but I got stuff. It is synchrosies, quirks, whatever may be and when I recognize that and really look in the mirror and see that it makes it a whole lot easier to accept my imperfect spouse. I am imperfect, my spouse is imperfect. Together we are perfect combination on a regular basis. I've seen this and I said this to my wife countless times. They're a match made in heaven living in Gehennem. They're two peas in a pod exact opposites, and then mash them each other so well, except they keep bucking heads. Watch this. I recently had a couple where he was the biggest bow chesed in the world. She was not anywhere near as much, but she was very, very accomplished, accomplishment oriented and she'd work on the kids homework and he'd make sure that the kids were nice guys. And I said you guys are perfect match. Perfect match If you just learn to accept each other. She couldn't accept him. The point is people have different tendencies and connections, temperaments, desires, different ways of doing things, and if you can embrace your spouse as your spouse is, you could be happy. If not, you're going to suffer. She's not going to change. She's not going to change. All you're going to do is wreck the relationship. But you have to understand she can change. It's her temperament, it's her nature to inner being and the only reason you demand that she changes because of you. It's easy when you look in the mirror you say I'm a difficult person to live with. It becomes a whole lot easier to accept another difficult person to live with.

This idea also, that a mensch is hardwired in. He has an itiya which is different than a mida, but he has an itiya that is unchangeable, and this is the way it is.

So let me be very blunt, I've been learning mussel for 40 years now, a half hour to an hour a day, every day, regular day, and I've worked on certain midas and I focused on them and I can tell you that I budged them a teeny, tiny, teeny bit. But after years and years of giving, shure them on it and speaking about it and writing about it, I budged them a teeny, teeny, teeny bit. That's a mida and that I have mussel sort of how to work on and then I can change. I'm supposed to change and I budged you the teeny bit. After 40 years, what are the odds that your spouse is going to change her inner nature? She's going to change her temperament or wiring, the way she is. Why don't you just be organized? Why don't you just stop being so emotional? Why don't you just be? Because that's who she is, that's who he is, and if you could accept it you could be happy.

If not, well, let's see how that works out for you, so I leave my socks on the floor. So the itiya is that I shouldn't change that, that my wife should accept that.

Okay now so listen, let's listen to very carefully. If I leave my socks on the floor, my job is to your mention. My job is to pick him up and my job is to work on what bothers my spouse as much as I can. And at the same time that I'm working as much as I can on that, my spouse's job is to accept me as I am. But both parts are necessary. You can't abdicate authority or responsibility here. You can't just say I'm a slob and live with it. If you're a slob, okay, you got to work on it as much as you can. At the same time, your spouse has to recognize your shortcomings and limitations and she can't demand of you more than what you're capable. But you can't just abdicate and say, well, I'm off the hook because it bothers my spouse. Tough luck. And your job is to stop everything in every which way you can that bothers your spouse. Your spouse's job is to embrace you as you are. Both you guys do your part. Life is beautiful and the minute you look on the other side of the mechitzo, the minute you start looking on the other part, that's when things get really, really rough.

So I want to kind of conclude here with the most exciting part, hopefully, of the interview, hopefully the one that will give the listeners the most value and hopefully they'll see that it is very much worth their time and money to acquire this book, and it's really a steal. With that being said, I want to try to do some some blazing, some rapid fire questions. These have been sent to me. The people that I asked you know something that they would want to hear. Number one my husband has a very serious job and he makes a lot of money. He constantly is doing things for the family. However, I never see him. What should I do?

You should buy the book and read it together with him, because the reason why you don't see him is because he doesn't understand that. You have a need that he may not have a need for. You have a need to talk, you have a need to communicate, you have a need to bond. Many, many husbands I met are happily married. Their wives aren't. Most guys are happily married. They provide for the family, work real hard and they're really good guys. The problem is the wife has needs that he doesn't have and if he doesn't understand your needs, he can't provide for them. And all your muscles, all your tellings, all your guilt trips and all your tears aren't going to help. Buy the book, buy the video book, read it together with him and hopefully he'll get an insight, His eyes will open up and he'll understand the female nature different than the male nature. And, Michael, this is worth repeating it is the husband's responsibility to romance his wife. The husband is responsible to romance his wife. It's his job. The man is responsible to plan the dates. The man is responsible to love notes and gifts, all the texts, all the things a couple in love should be doing. The man is responsible to romance his wife.

Question two. It is very important and in fact, the seventh really dumb mistake that couples mess up with is forgetting that talking means something different to women, a couple that are struggling to make conversation and they do not enjoy the conversations that they have. What would be a tip to add some productivity to their conversations?

Okay. So let me start with the husband. And the Hosanish says you have to speak to wife about things. When you leave, when you're going out, you tell her where you're going. When you come back, you tell her what you did. You tell her what happened the other day. I remember when we first got married, my wife asked me that question. So how was your day? Okay, we just okay. Yeah, it was okay. What do you want? Like it was okay, yeah, you know, I didn't mean anything mean by it, I just it was okay. Now, if a big deal happened, you know, I don't know if somebody, a rusa, dropped me or I don't know what, but everything else, just, it took me a long time to understand and really I learned later. I owe my mother an apology. A woman asked how was your day? What she's asking is she wants to share her world with you and wants you to share her world with her and as a man, you have to learn to do that. You have to learn to share the details. My wife always asked me the details and if she knows by now I don't provide them well, because I don't remember them, but it's your responsibility as a husband to provide the details and, ladies, you also have to recognize that your husband is not into the details as much and it's not as important to him and he doesn't need to. Every little step and every little nuance in what you've met and who you met and how it happened, and save that for your girlfriends, keep your girlfriends, save the main content for your husband, but when you each learn your conversational needs, it's a whole lot easier to make pleasant, enjoyable conversation.

It's the same thing keeps coming up. You gotta get out of your own head and see it from someone else's point of view. I am schmoozing and learning with my rush Yeshiva. I'm in Tief, in the middle of R'bchayim al-Haram Bam, and my wife is incessantly calling me that there is a cockroach on the floor of the kitchen. What should I do?

Right. So obviously hang up on your wife and hang up on your marriage.

This is the Pshan Ram Bam. This is the Pshan Ram Bam at stake here.

Right, right, right right. So you have to understand and this is exactly the point the reason why it's inconsequential and ridiculous to him is because in his experience that's exactly what it is and little bugs or things like this don't bother him. And understanding that your wife experiences things differently than you, do that to your wife it's a terrifying moment. To your wife it's really a big deal. By the way, I can't tell how many times guys say she's flighty, she's so emotional, it's completely shekher. And women are not cry babies, women are not. The difference is she feels it much more intensely, she feels it much more acutely and because she feels it to a much greater extent, of course it's going to affect her demeanor, to impact her composite, how she feels. So you have to recognize she has a different emotionality, views things differently. And when you're able to do that, you're able to actually be sensitive. Because you see, if I'm going to judge you by my experience, by my inner world, I can't be a nice guy. I can be the nicest guy in the world, but there are limits. Come on, stupid cockroach. You want me to stop learning for a cut Once I recognize that it's my spouse. It's much more than that. It's my spouse that really matters and really important. When I'm able to lead my own comfort zone and climb into the emotional world of my spouse, it's a whole lot easier for me to appreciate and recognize where she's coming from, and then I could actually be a nice guy in practice, not just in my own head.

My spouse is constantly on their phone. When we are home at the dinner table, the phone is binging. When we go on a date, the phone is there and I feel like they are not fully present. If I can't change my spouse and I should accept them. What am I left with?

Okay, now changing your spouse and asking them to shut the phone off for two different things. I believe every couple should have downtime from the phone. There is a lot of people aren't aware of this, but on most phones there's a thing called the off switch and most phones I don't know if you were most phones can actually be shut off. Now a lot of people think and that the Pentagon will stop functioning, society will stop, gravity will stop if I shut my phone off. But it will not and a couple should make up a regular time when they both shut the phones off. Now, if you have a babysitter, so fine, you'll leave one line unblocked, but it's one line. I had a couple of ones who they were having a lot of show and bias problems and I convinced them finally to go on a date and the rule was no smartphones. So afterwards I asked a guy how was the date? He said ah, ah. I said what do you? She was on the Blackberry all the time. I said Blackberry, I didn't even know. You can hook it up and I went away hook up a Blackberry to the existing line so she'll be able to still text her friends. You have to set good dorm boundaries to allow for marriage to flourish, and one of the important boundaries are there should be certain time with no phones. On a date no phones. Dinner time no phones. There should be time when you as a couple connect but that's not changing your spouse. That's creating boundaries for an effective marriage, for a good relationship, and that I encourage wholeheartedly.

Should a couple have a weekly Chavrusa study session together, either on this book 10 really dumb mistakes that very smart couples make or any sort of book. Is it something that is a topic that should be studied together weekly by a safer?

Okay. So to be honest with you, reading the 10 really dumb mistakes is a couple of great idea if it works for you and learning must be safer as a Chavruza husband wife is greater than if it works for you and any such satyr is a greater. If it works For some couples, it works. For some couples it doesn't. I got married and we started with little charm. First night it went very well. Second night it didn't go so well. The third night my wife said I don't think I want to learn anymore. I said why not? My wife's very firm moment you want to learn. The answer is I feel like it's a classroom. I feel like you're the teacher. I really I got it. I got it. So since that time, I don't know I why my wife learns. She goes to shuram all the time. She goes this year. That's your. But the answer is there's a relationship called husband and wife, and husband and wife is not mentor and student, not Rebbe and Talmud, it's best friends who love each other. And if the Chavruza ship works, great, do it. And again, if it does, I highly recommend doing the book together or the video book, because it's a great thing to do together, and but that's only provided it actually works. If it becomes one of these finger pointing sessions or becomes negative, then yeah, obviously you don't do it.

And the last final question here I do everything for my spouse, yet they say thank you, but I feel totally underappreciated. What should I do?

Okay, what you do. You take a pad and on this pad you write down all the things your spouse does for you. And when you write that down, then every day for the next 30 days you read it to yourself 10 times. She does this to me, she cleans and she cooks and she puts my socks away, and she does it. Read it over 10 times and then you're going to feel something incredible a sense of appreciation for your spouse. And then you're going to do the next step, because you appreciate what your spouse does for you and you're going to compliment her and praise her and thank her for the things she does for you. And when you exhibit appreciation, a strange thing is going to happen. She's going to smile, she's going to be feel appreciated, she's going to feel loved and suddenly she's going to change and I guarantee she'll act far more appreciative back. Don't catch, don't complain. And you got a problem. Work on it, deal with it, become appreciative and you'll suddenly find the mirror of the relationship reflects back. Your spouse will reflect it back to you.

Wow, wow, wow. That's quite the ending. I mean this is we've only really touched on I believe it's now three of the mistakes and in each very dumb mistake, very expertly named, it's very dumb and the couples are very smart. It's really a world of its own, and the simple reality is everyone needs an education.

You can either get the education the hard way many people never get the education. I mean, you take a book like this and you read it and you can. You know there's an expression why is men learn from others mistakes while fools don't even learn from their own? That's great. If you're married, you're making mistakes and you don't understand what you're doing wrong. You can't correct them and get some education. Read a book and this is not the only book in the world, many, many other books. Get an education. Understand marriage, understand what you need. And suddenly you change the relationship and suddenly she's not so biting, she's not so carping, suddenly he's not such a creep, he's not so distant. You act differently, they act differently, you change the trajectory of the relationship and you learn to be happily married.

Abhishevar, you're brilliant. I think that the audience is going to gain a lot from this. Just to share, hakkar, the recognition of you know the work that needs to be done. It's probably a never-ending topic. So I thank you for your time, I thank you for your wisdom that you shared and I look forward to the next book, the next platform and bringing you back on to help us save the world.