Overcome Elul Anxiety: The Path to Complete Teshuvah and Freedom from Addiction | Mordechai Weiss (Rebroadcast)

Welcome and Elul Intensity

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Good invites to everybody and uh a good fog cutter with them and rose hido to the holiday, to MOED, and especially with the impending or upcoming month of Ell, it's Rose Photo to Ell now. You can almost hear the signs or the sounds of the tilfar. And uh with that a little bit of a accelerated heartbeat. But we're all excited for Ell. I thought it would be important and quite uh helpful for many of us, including myself, to hear about how to maximize the month of Ell in a uh spiritually uplifting and empowering way while also doing it in a healthy, not over uh anxious or despairing type of way. And there is no better man that I can think of as Holy Person David's right behind me in tool. Um is there for free therapy. He is uh a licensed psychotherapist, and I believe that he is also a townward of some of the greatest rabbis of our generation. You'll correct me if that's uh incorrect, but I'd like to welcome the famous Mordecai Weiss to the Motivation Congregation Podcast.

SPEAKER_01 1:18

Thank you so much, McCall. Really appreciate uh the uh opening remarks and those kind words. And uh I am looking forward to uh trying to respond to uh some of those points that you just mentioned, and hopefully that our discussion will be a Tayellas, and there'll be uh thoughtful ideas that we'll discuss, and hopefully we'll all be able to approach El in a spiritual and healthy way so that we can use the experience in the way it's uh it'll be the most beneficial for everybody.

SPEAKER_00 1:50

Did I I mean, I mean, I'm main to that. Um did I get that right? It's licensed clinical social worker and psychotherapist. Is that uh the official title?

SPEAKER_01 1:59

Yeah, that's that's all that's all uh a good reference to uh who I am and what I do. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:05

The the I mean the great ones um they speak about you, the great rabbis speak about you very highly, and they're ones that I think that they even uh view you as a I think the right word is confidant or they they they um speak with you about it. Who who I forgot, who is the rabbis that you learn under, just for the the audience, where uh did you study in yeshiva in your youth and who are your rabbis?

SPEAKER_01 2:29

Okay, so um I uh studied in the Philadelphia yeshiva, known as Philly. I was there for a few years, and then from there I uh went on to Artistral, learned from the Brisk Briscoe Kyle, and then after I got married, um I went back to Archistral. I had the big fuss of uh being in Artistral for five years after I was married. And at that time, um I got close to Balibarak Shrinkel as a Hitabak Lavra. And um at the same time I also became close to uh what I think might be two

Meet The Therapist Behind The Mic

SPEAKER_01 3:00

of the uh foremost Mozart personalities in our generation. Um Rabru Vein Leichter is one of them. He is a very prominent Dalmor of Slaymba Volvo.

SPEAKER_00 3:08

I'm obsessed with him. Not to say obsessed with therapists, but I'm obsessed with with uh Rabruvain Leichter. Yeah, we've heard of him here.

SPEAKER_01 3:15

And uh as well as of as well as of Noah Orlowitz, um, who uh is also well known Mashkiyak. Both of them authored several books, or Svarim, and they're they're well known in the Hinok world. Um, definitely uh big thinkers in terms of uh psychology, what we call Hinook, Shalom Bayas, Musir, how to work on oneself, self-work, uh working with others. So definitely uh they both have been uh tremendous influences on my life, and I consider it a big clip that I uh learned from them for several years. And uh I still keep up the shaykhs and I still learn from them. And uh that's a very uh you know, that's extremely, extremely um helpful for the work that I do within the from community working with clients. It's very hard uh to separate the clients that I that I see are pretty much all from, you know, typically uh Lakewood, either Bahrim or young men. And the religion is such a uh integral part of what's happening in people's lives that having a framework that's informed from a religious perspective uh definitely uh comes uh into tremendous use in everything that I do, even in my office.

SPEAKER_00 4:31

That's that's brilliant, and that is quite the uh bullpen and lineup of rabbinic personalities. I didn't know you learned in the brisker Kylo. That's uh some top-end, high-end learning, and you're in Kylo longer than I've been in Kylo. So let's hope that I can get past the uh five-year mark. But um I think you're the perfect man then for the job. I come to you holding a message um of of of of wanting help for myself and for um fellow, as you call them, clients, fellow Bachram do-it-youts, maybe even adults. LL is my favorite time of the year because I love that it's a short month in the L'Man in Youth, it ain't the sixth month. It ain't like the winter's man or the summer's man. Ell is intense. And um definitely in the confines of the walls of the ATEVA, Ell is famous, along with the impending judgment and notwithstanding, um definitely included in all this, is also a fair amount of anxiety and perhaps even a bit of some unhealthy anxiety, which I like to pose the question to directly. Is there a way that we can keep Ell a strong, I don't want to say intense month, but a different than all the other months type of idea that there is the high holidays and judgment coming up? But is there a way to go about it? And how would you advise somebody that wants to go about it in a really, really productive way, but a non-anxious and completely healthy way?

SPEAKER_01 6:11

That's a uh really excellent question. And it's something, McCall, that's very much uh is relevant to so many people. And uh while the discussion that we're gonna talk about is that it pertains to Al, but of course, uh it also can come up in all areas of Avaita Sashem. So Al, as you mentioned, is a time of generally where people are feeling more intense because of the seriousness of the days. But at the same time, Ava Sashem in general is serious, and often

Yirat Shamayim Versus Anxiety

SPEAKER_01 6:40

anxiety can be mixed in there in an unhealthy way. And uh those people as well, even you know, who are not specifically wondering about Ell, but even people who might be wondering about in general, how do I approach the seriousness of Aveita Hashem without creating some form of unhealthy anxiety? I think that would be relevant uh to think about it in that broader way as well.

SPEAKER_00 7:03

You have my attention, and um, I'm sure you have the rest of the world's attention. So what's the secret sauce? How do I know? How about let's go like this and get very, very, very direct. How do I know that something is a step too far and maybe closer into the pool of anxiety and not healthy year-ass shamaias? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:24

So I I want to reflect a little bit on uh what I was saying before and and what was brought up in terms of my background. And that is also why I feel that um in some way, I hope that I would consider myself qualified to respond to this, is because I've also not only um is my response going to be, you know, based off what psychology thinks about anxiety and what's healthy and what's unhealthy, definitely a lot of my thinking on this topic is influenced by Torah perspectives, by the Rabayum that I learned by as well, um, in terms of how to approach Avedita Shem in a healthy way. So definitely it's something that I've learned about, and I also sit with clients. This is what I do pretty much a whole day. Um, I do have several specialties. So I I specialize in anxiety and OCD, and the third one is Kiducia struggle. Maybe that's something we'll talk about as well. I start one during our conversation. So those are my three areas of specialty. Anxiety and OCD are very closely related. Um and since I uh sit with people who you know struggle with these areas, so definitely something that I had a chance to think about. I've grown through getting to know what you know what's happening in people's lives and how to help them, how to work with them. So I do hope that my answer then uh will be on target and will be helpful. Okay, so let's try to uh talk about anxiety and uh how do we approach all this in a healthy way. So the first thing we have to understand is that when it comes to Elol or Yamamai Rum and all those times that are considered, you know, uh days of awe and there's judgment and all of that, we have to recognize that Yeroshamayam does not mean being nervous or under stress. And um anytime that we are going to be using some form of a Torah-based approach to something, including Yurashamayim, it has to be something that's workable and functional. So since the way we see people who are under stress, under direct, under tension, when people stop functioning well, when people are suffering because of what they might think, let's say, is the requirement or the religious requirement. So we first need to just have a corrective um understanding of what the Torah perspective actually is. So I think we need to talk a little bit about that first, and then maybe I'll shift a little bit to anxiety. So perfect. Okay. So um it's true that there are words that, you know, are used in the Tvarim that describe fear and trepidation and all kinds of things like that as we approach the seriousness of Rashashana and etc. And uh while that is something that's important, but we have to recognize that uh the fear that they are referring to is something that is very constructive, something that can be used in a way. And the the best way that I think that we could translate it in English to what the way that might look like would be to approach the either these days or this subject with a sense of seriousness and awe. When you approach something with seriousness and awe, it's because you take the the topic or you take the moment seriously. There's something very serious on the table that we need to be doing. There's some very important, that's another word that we can use, a very important endeavor that has to happen. For example, an LO, the the call of the hour is chuva. And there's something that we need to be working on, we need to be working, we need to be doing something. So therefore, we need to attach a great importance and a great seriousness to what's in front of us. But we have to also recognize that that's different than saying that we have to be in a state of fear or being overwhelmed or stressed, which we know both from, you know, experience and we know from what works is that that doesn't work. It just doesn't work when we're overwhelmed and we're fearful. What happens is people just freeze, you know. Either you freeze or you get overwhelmed, and definitely anything you do in that state can't be done in a in a way that you is well thought out, and it typically doesn't have any lasting effect. It cannot be that, you know, the purpose of El uh is just to, you know, get sh shaken up and just to be feel overwhelmed a little bit. And when it comes to Nilo, you feel super overwhelmed, and then you know, you you breathe a side of relief, Mathi and Kipra, and you say, you know, thank God. I hope I I made it through this, and that's the whole purpose. You know, that doesn't seem like it can't be. Yeah. Wow. It cannot be. So, but isn't the day so serious? Isn't the topic so serious? So I have some analogy for that. You know, a brain surgeon or a heart surgeon, definitely what they're doing is very serious, you know. The slightest wrong move, and you know, that has a disastrous outcome. You know, somebody who's working in the army and somebody's um, you know, who's loading uh ammunition onto, you know, the uh bomber plane. That's very super serious, you know. You don't want to mess up when you're doing that kind of work. You don't want to just be, you know, uh, whatever, I'll just yeah, let me pass you those explosives and throw it across the room. No, that's not the way you handle it. But at the same time, the last thing a brain surgeon, you don't want a brain surgeon who's nervous before he comes into the operating room. And you don't want somebody who's working in the army to be shaking in fear as he's dealing with the, you know, ammunition that he's got to be working with. You want somebody who is calm. Very calm. One second, but doesn't that mean then that they will be a lackadaisical and non-caring and they'll, you know, approach the whole thing as if it makes no difference? No. Of course not. Because being calm is not a contradiction to taking the work at something that is serious, something that's important, something that you need to be doing with care and attention. But that does be but that does that does not mean though, that it has to be in a state of shock and a state of feeling overwhelmed, which is completely unproductive. So I think, you know, clarifying what seems to be the Torah-based approach, just to be able to say that, hey, we have to we have to first recognize what is the truth about what the Tara wants from us uh when it comes to Al-Yam Lehram. And if we can kind of make that assumption that what I said now is correct, and again, I'm I'm not making this up myself.

SPEAKER_00 13:57

This is a million dollar answer. The the the I love the way that you've you've you've kind of came at it through, you know, first there's the Torah sources because you know, part of it is keeping the authenticity of Ell and working through that it is Yum No Euronium and there's only I Kosavun. Oh, the Yum keyboard e cosemun, MIBA Maium, MIBA eight. Um I would take the pastelance and and some of the other ones, it sounds a little bit easier than my M and H. But keeping that, and uh it sounds like from the drift, um, if I'm catching it properly, is that um is uh staying calm, but staying real um maybe maybe enlighten me a little bit more. How do I tell the difference? How can I tell the difference between Yirashamaim and anxiety?

SPEAKER_01 16:02

I'd have to say it in a few words, it's when we are being productive or we're being unproductive. You know, it it it I too learned in uh, you know, yeshivas whether you felt that level of intensity, you know, when it comes to Yamam Nairam or when Elman. You know, when you just start getting those butterflies in your stomach and you feel frozen, and now you can't really do anything, you know, or you're just feeling overwhelmed, or you hear some schmooz, and you're just again, you're feeling so overwhelmed from that, then that's a good way of knowing that there's really not much that's productive about this, and this is not going to be a productive form of Yerishamain. Yes, it sounds like it's the same thing, it's fear of heaven or fear of God or fear of judgment. But it can't be that the fear that they're describing in the Svaram is asking to have this type of fear that becomes completely unproductive. In fact, Bishal Kalantar in uh one of his letters, he describes Yerushamain as being a productive force. He says Yura is the force that drives people into action. So if Yura becomes a force of inaction and that shuts us down, and that allows us to just feel overwhelmed and stressed, and that we feel like we can't do anything or anything that we can formulate, any type of work we can formulate in those moments, is short-lived and it's not based on any calm approach, that's a pretty good sign that we are not using the year that's called for in these days in the correct manner.

SPEAKER_00 17:28

It's incredible. It comes to mind the the whole EL, I believe, is is very much in the sources built up as from the Rashi Tevis, the acronym of I need the dodi the dodi lee, that verse on your period, which which is is one topic that just basically means this is a relationship of love. I need the dodi, the dodi le I'm to my beloved and my beloved is to me. So it it is kind of interesting to go back to the very source of the whole thing. Which is that if if God is some big scary father and it invokes fear, then it does and it's not constructive. Um we can be pretty starting. Maybe that's not what L is supposed to be used for. So turning the page here

When Perfectionism Runs Your Avodas Hashem

SPEAKER_00 18:11

before the show, um going back and forth a little bit and being able to understand a little bit about the value that I thought all of the world or the many people that listen to the motivation congregation very much need to hear. You had mentioned that what you see in your um experience is and meetings with people is there is a fair amount of anxiety that is provoked because of something that you call perfectionatism, which I believe if I studied enough English or listened to my dad enough, means that people are obsessed with being perfect, and somehow that leads towards some ill effects. Uh Mr. Mordechai, would you care to elaborate on that? Definitely, definitely.

SPEAKER_01 19:04

Um okay. Should I first reflect, Michael, a little bit on uh what I I was saying before that we could kind of divide the um religious perspective on how to approach Owl, and then in terms of like anxiety, what's considered healthy and not, should I speak a little bit about that first and come to perfectionism? Perfect. Okay. So just to answer the part about, you know, anxiety, when it's considered, you know, healthy or unhealthy, it's very similar to to what we discussed till now, and it basically uh, you know, comes down to if it's productive or not, right? So as long as somebody says, hey, I'm feeling a little bit of pressure, a little bit of a push, a little bit of something that's, you know, giving me a pushing me into action. That's fine, you know? And as long as people in general uh are functioning well, then we don't necessarily consider that an anxiety problem. It's because it's not a problem, you know? It becomes a problem when it's a problem. It becomes a problem when people are suffering, when somebody is not functioning well because of their anxiety, when somebody is feeling, you know, worn down physically, there can be physical symptoms, when they're obsessing with worry or all kinds of thoughts in their mind. And that and that interferes in, you know, proper functioning and in just you know, living a calm life, that's when we consider anxiety a problem. So it's when it becomes excessive and it becomes non-functional or interferes in functioning, that's when we consider it a problem. So I want to just address that point, and I think it's you know, kind of falls off the first point.

SPEAKER_00 20:33

Definitely. Definitely, definitely. And I show I want to mention that I'm sure there's different parts of anxiety that is one you're a specific specialist in is obsessive compulsive disorder, and that is called OCD for short. Is that a type of anxiety?

SPEAKER_01 20:52

Is that yeah, yeah, it's a very good question. Um, so I believe that in the, you know, we have what's called DSM, and that is the Bible, so to speak, for mental health. And uh in there they classify all the disorders. And I think in the previous version of the DSM, they did put um OCD as a class under anxiety. Since then they separated it and they made it into its own disorder, but simply because they'll they had it it had its own defining features, and that's kind of the reason that they separated it. But that's kind of just the uh clinical uh response. But I think what's what's more relevant is that definitely OCD is a form of anxiety. OCD always comes along with anxiety. Those who experience OCD are anxious about whatever it is that they're obsessing about, whatever behaviors they're doing. So it has a lot of similarities, but there are differences. And uh often uh, you know, there can be somebody who's very uh knowledgeable at treating anxiety, but not specifically OCD or the reverse. And uh you do need to have uh, you know, good awareness and training in each of those things because there are some nuances and differences in the approach that we use to treat uh OCD and anxiety.

SPEAKER_00 22:05

So so now that we have um clarified exactly what everyone's suffering from and struggling with and what we all need help with, um, be it as it may, so now Rashid Shahna Yum Kipper is coming and there is this drive to repent. Um I'd like to wake up on time for chapters every day. Um I dab in at 7.30 and it'd be personal. It'll be like some free therapy, and um and I like to be there at 7.25 so I can gather my thoughts and put my tool in on in a very calm and measured way. Um maybe even have some time to stay the the morning carbonos those sacrifices and get the key are in there and the carbon toned. But um I can't promise or make a chivala that I I always am on time. And um I would like to perfect at this coming out. That's one of my cabbages, one of my commitments. Um I'd like to be perfect at it, I'd like to turn over um or on the stop of a dime stop waking up late. I know that ain't exactly how it goes about. Making a commitment to wake up on time and dealing with anxiety and that's way for perfect and that's quite asked how to best go about it in the most healthy and productive way. We'll be back after a quick break. Be sure to subscribe to the motivation congregation on WhatsApp where you can click upon a highlight every single day with a Tower talk that is crafted to inspire and enlighten. You can join the broadcast list on WhatsApp and receive the videos directly to your WhatsApp app Feedbox every single day. You can watch the weekly trips to the farm store to stay and know about all things of tour literature, plus with behind-the-scenes looks, bonus content, and deep dives into great tourist pages' private lives. And we discuss them on their yard sites. There is a lot going on. And you can scroll down to find the link to join us on WhatsApp. I hope that you do, and hope that you'll reach out and say hello. And once again, now back to the show, and I hope you enjoy the rest of this episode.

SPEAKER_01 24:35

So let's talk about perfectionism, you know, that you brought up. And and I think that uh that's uh a topic that hopefully uh can uh be relevant and uh whatever we discuss, it can be helpful to a lot of people. So we are a society that very much values outcome, that values performance, and that definitely rubs off on our approach to religion as well. And that's the focus of our discussion here. So when religion becomes about performance and outcome, that's basically what we call perfectionism. You know, perfectionism means that I need to be doing everything perfectly, I need to be functioning perfectly, and I need to get to the desired outcome and results that I would like. And if not, and if I don't get there, then I can feel very crushed from that. That's what, you know, could happen on the one end. So there's there's basically two things that could happen, right? So if I set my bar as needing to be perfect and needing to do whatever it is that I'm working on in a very perfect way, so on the one hand, I could work in a way that's completely non-functional. So sometimes we have boys who will suddenly, you know, devote themselves to learning in a very perfectionistic way. They want to be the Gogo Hadar. And uh they may, you know, learn way more than they're capable of handling, too many hours, not enough sleep, not taking care of their basic needs, not socializing the way a young man needs to. And uh, you know, they they can pretty much cause themselves to get burnt out or to suffer other mental health consequences along the way. Many of those types of boys show up in my office. And the underlying problem there is one of perfectionism. So there's an approach of approaching this thing to say, I want to excel in learning, or I want to excel in whatever it is, or I need to davin in a certain way, or I need to work in Vinama Khaven in a certain way, and if the way I'm working is needing to be perfect, so then i you work like a madman or you work in a way that's completely not uh necessarily according to one's own nature or their capabilities. And that can, of course, create a lot of anxiety, right? So uh anxiety shows up for us when we feel overwhelmed and incapable of dealing with what's in front of us. That's typically what creates

Serious Work That Stays Manageable

SPEAKER_01 26:51

anxiety. We can't deal with the circumstances. So if religion becomes so pressuring, so overwhelming, then I'm gonna feel pretty anxious because I I can't possibly live up to the demand that's in front of me, and that'll just make me feel worried and make me feel nervous.

SPEAKER_00 27:07

And um But you can't be asking me, you can't be asking me then to then accept complacency and to therefore therefore just become an average Joe and not a great Torah Sage, because that sounds even worse. Right. That's very good. That's a good question. That's a good question.

SPEAKER_01 27:22

So uh because we are so used to thinking in terms of perfectionism that your assumption is the automatic assumption of what people think is the alternative. Well, if I'm not gonna be perfect, and if I'm not going for perfection, then Mordecai, you're basically advocating for complacency. You're advocating for mediocracy because why should I do anything about it?

SPEAKER_00 27:47

I'm gonna be a bane on me for the rest of my life.

SPEAKER_01 27:50

Yeah, yeah. So that I think just shows us how much this perfectionistic view is entrenched, that we think that it's either that or the alternative is sitting on a couch and eating chips. Here, I'll show you what what the alternative is to perfectionism. That doesn't mean sitting on a couch with your feet up, you know, eating chips and drinking soda. The alternative to perfectionism saying that there's something important and there's something serious in front of me that needs to get done. Learning is very important. Bitalter, super serious. Davening, very important. Now, how do I approach this important, serious task in a way that's manageable, in a way that's doable, in a way that's according to my nature, in a way that's going to make sense, in a way that's going to last. That seems to be a great alternative to saying that there's some demand that needs to be reached, and there's some outcome I need to get to, which then says that I'm only gonna be working in a very unproductive, crazy way that's not going to last. It seems so logical, but it's almost a logic that's lost to so many of us because we don't like you think that if you're not going to have now here comes a, you know, a hot word, or maybe what's gonna be a hot topic, shi'ifas. Like if I'm not going to have the drive or the desire to be like, I don't know what, like the God al Hadar, then the alternative is that I'm going to sit and do nothing. Which um is uh, you know, not really the case. You know, I think you could have a sha'ifah, not to be the God alhadar, but just you take the work that's in front of you very seriously. Now, I personally have like 15 Makairips, you know, in Khazal and Slarim that, you know, that's the case. But Sha'if is like all the rage, you know. Every yeshiva boy knows you have to have sha'ifith. Now, I'm not opposed to sha'ifith as long as they're working and they're not killing anybody. The problem is so many boys who come into my office and so many people in society, and even those who don't come into my office, are killed by this perspective that says you need to reach and be something that's completely unattainable, completely it's beyond anybody's reach. But you you need to get there. So either you have two options either you work like a madman and then you burn out at some point, or you just keep on working, but you're you you wreck yourself physically, mentally, emotionally, or you just despair, you know, because you realize after a short time, since how long it takes you to realize that. But most of us will not be Rabhain Kanyevsky. You know, there was only one Rabhain Kanyevsky. That's it.

SPEAKER_00 30:26

You know, so what should I aspire to be like? Now I'm feeling unempowered.

SPEAKER_01 30:30

Yeah. So the alternative is to uh work to be what you can be. Now people know these sayings too, but they don't seem to be like, you know, they don't seem to be uh they don't use this way to apply themselves to them. They all know that, you know, that the the famous zitha that he says, Davis is gonna ask him why you like zitha. I could say these words, but but I don't say these words, but still people, it takes a while to integrate this way into our thinking. That no, I'm going to be what I can be. That's not mediocracy. That's simply saying I'm going to try to be what I can be by taking whatever I need to do in a bad seriously. Why do I have to reach for something that's completely beyond my reach? Why is that the way to work? It's this is so novel, Michal. It's so novel.

SPEAKER_00 31:17

It's so novel.

SPEAKER_01 31:19

I had a Rush as Shiva, so I had it, I of course, you know, I had I had the Talmudim, you know, come to me for the help, you know, after they maybe try to go to their abeyim and they and they don't get the help they need, so they send them here or they come here. And and this Talmud wanted to be, you know, he he actually had some pretty Khajvichas, and he wanted to be like his, you know, whatever, and like those, you know, that's that he worked as Avaita Sashem to be all those things. But he was suffering emotionally tremendously. He was full of anxiety, his dominant became a a burden and and took terribly long. His he was learning, you know, Friday night till two in the morning, and he w wasn't sleeping enough. So the kid was, you know, on the way to, you know, g giving himself uh, you know, uh I don't know what, you know, but he was definitely suffering now. And if he continues like this, he's going to, you know, you know, be a mess. So they send him to me. So there's no way, and this goes back to what I said before. I need to be able to talk a perspective that pertains to Al Vedas Hashem to uh you know to my clients.

SPEAKER_00 32:16

Otherwise no one's gonna listen. He's not gonna listen.

SPEAKER_01 32:17

Right, we'll tell you. What am I gonna say? Don't be anxious because it says in you know my psychology book that you have to, you know, be calm and that you you you shouldn't work in a way that's no, but the tyrant says, Don't you know that you have to work with Sha'if? Very good. You know, you have all the Mikaias. So they have I know all these Mikaias, that's a good thing, but I also have all the other Mikaias, right? So I have to speak to them about I have no choice, you know. I don't have a beard, you know, but I I I have a beard inside. Very nice. Yeah. But I I I have to be able to speak to them about of how do you approach Avaita Sashem in a calm way. So I do have to talk about Shi'ifas, and I do have to tell the kids some of what I'm sharing with you here is that they're you know, I try to have it as as a discussion, don't like tell them, you know, but as a discussion, you know, well, how do you approach this? This makes sense, that makes sense, and I have to try to let them know that you could approach Avaita Hashem in a way that you're not giving up one drop of effort or one drop of seriousness. You know, you don't have to want to be, I don't, you know, like I I I give a muscle, you know, like if let's say I go to the doctor and he says to me, Mordechai, you know, it's important for you to incorporate exercise in your life, you know, for whatever reason, for your health, you need to you need to do exercise, but you need to, you know, lift weights, or you need to jog uh, you know, at least, you know, three times a week, half hour. So here's the the the like the way that I think, based on how people approach A Veda Sasham in a perfectionistic way, would it would say that you need to approach this? Well, if I'm gonna need to exercise three times a week, I need to have in my mind that I want to be an Olympian. I want to be able to run in the hundred-meter race at the next Olympics, and I need to be able to beat the record. I need to be the world's fastest runner. Because if not, why would I exercise three times a week? Why would I go running unless I want to be the Olympian? Michael, does that make any sense to you? Why does that make sense? So what would you say? Well, then if you don't be the Olympian, you're probably just gonna sit on your couch and not do any exercise. You're probably just gonna uh take out a uh uh you know a margarita and sit on your couch and drink. No, that's if I'm an idiot. But if I if I'm able to approach this as something serious and important, not as something overwhelming and scary and uh it's serious. It's important. The doctor says for your health, you need to exercise several times a week. I don't need to want to be an Olympian. In fact, I have no interest in being an Olympian. But I do want to be healthy, so therefore, I might decide to exercise several times a week and do that seriously without having any overarching uh, you know, goal to reach some type of place. Not enough to reach anywhere. I just have to do exercise. That's it. Now let's just apply that lamuzzle to learning or any part of Veda Tashem. Why do you need to be an Olympian in a Vedita Tasham? Like, why do you have to want to be a Bhaim Khanyaki in order to learn a Tesra? You're in the Dhish Madras, you're Yeshiva Bakr. There's a mitzvah call talk. That's very serious, very important. Now you need to approach it in a way that works for your life. In fact, let's go back to my example. If let's say I decided, you know what, I want to be an Olympian, there's a good chance that, again, I'll kill myself. Either I'm gonna work like a madman the first week, I'll bust my knees, I'll destroy my shoulder, I'm gonna try to do some exercises that are completely not according to my nature, that don't work, that won't last, I'll feel overwhelmed by that. So it's the same thing when you apply Surveyed Hashem in the same way, you know? If I try to be something that I way beyond me and I'm working this crazy way, uh I'm a bat, right? So why is it why why do you have to be that way? You know, what's wrong with approaching it by saying, let me take this seriously, and I'm going to find a way to approach this demand in a way that works, in a way that's going to last, in a way that I can do it calmly, that has nothing to do with Shi'ifah. That's just saying the topic is important, there's something serious that needs to be done. There's a demand, the Abbishta demands it. You don't have a choice, you know. It is so you it is so, I'm sorry to interrupt you.

SPEAKER_00 36:12

It's so it's so eye-opening because it rubs me the wrong way so intensely. Uh and and um I think that's why you get paid to rub people the wrong way and tell them the truth. It's a lot of fun. And and the more you say it though, the more it's it's uh I think there's something here. Um actually working at the effort that I'm pretty sure that that's how rabbit also and learn that wrap on that every person can be as good as most of the that once we have the piece of probably worked um so many of these environments. That's correct because of the results that you would agree with that. Basically, when people adapt this, not accepting of mediocrity, but this it it it's like it's like barf what I'm saying, or vomit I don't know what the right way to say it is, but this this lowering of their aspirations, then they become a better servant of God. Is that true?

SPEAKER_01 37:35

I definitely think that's true. It's definitely what I see from experience. It makes all the sense in the world. I can't understand why it would make any sense to work in this Shiif kind of way. Yes, there might be some people that it does something for, but to say that that should be the general approach for the Mainanan, it's so novel, Bapal, that I was saying before this Rosheshiva, who I was seeing as Talmud. So when once I shared this kind of idea with this student, he went back and I said he comes from a very, you know, prominent family, and he shared this with his parents, and apparently, you know, blew their mind, you know. Like, what do you mean? He has to want to be like Kivega or something. What's this therapist telling him? And they he went to speak his Rashiva. Basically, his Rasheshiva called me up like it was like a crisis. Roshiva called me up, and I don't really have a lot of time, you know, uh to speak to everybody who wants to speak to me on the phone between you know so many clients and there's all these third, like, you know, there's a bam, there's Therren. So in a way, I can't I can't, you know, have a dialogue like I'm having with you in Bakal where I can go into length and I can talk all the sources. So simply I have to, you know, say to Rosh Shiva, like I was trying to say to him what I'm what I'm saying to you, but in a much shorter version, like he was saying to me, like, what kind of talk is that to tell a Bakr and Yeshiva not to have Shiva? But the reason that he was that he was, you know, so taken aback by that is because the automatic reaction to that is is that, oh, so you must mean to be saying to this boy that he should be sitting on a couch. Like that's obviously what you're saying. They don't understand, you know, that there's a way to approach it's so novel, you know, but it it's so sensible that it's it's surprising that it should be novel, but it's so sensible. Everything that we said till now, you know, just approach something in a workable way because it's serious and it's important. What do you add on by saying to strive for something that's way beyond your abilities? Like what what is it well tell me how it how it helps. You know, what does it do other than create nerves?

SPEAKER_00 39:26

So I it kind of falls into the next um intense and super and horribly popular problem that plagues countless people in the world of the world at large. What is the overwhelming artist? These two things go hand in hand. It'll probably be just like every other L that I want to wake up on time, I want to give up that sin. I probably

Escaping Despair Through The Work

SPEAKER_00 40:41

will for about a day, maybe a week, maybe if I'm lucky, for a month, but after that, I'll probably be right back to where I started, and therefore I feel hopeless.

SPEAKER_01 40:52

Very uh pointed question, McCall. And definitely one that uh I can identify with. I think we most of us can identify with, uh, especially those who've uh been through many o's, and you know, when a buffer is still very young, he might still be holding on to that Shifa, you know, where he you know thinks this will be the L or this will be the year, but it's definitely a uh painful reality and a painful feeling for a lot of us that uh we're here again and did things really change? Did we change? How's it gonna be different now? And that's that's that's something that I think that's uh important to address, probably on a lot of people's minds. There's many parts to the question. So in terms of of uh you know the despair being connected to what we talked about before, I think that's one aspect of it, right? So if Abeda Sashem is about being perfect, if we need to do things perfectly, if we need to have perfect outcomes, then definitely despair is the natural outcome. So like we were speaking about before, like one of two things happen if you need to be perfect. Either you work in a way that's completely overwhelming and stressful, and somehow you maintain that until you don't. And then when you can't maintain it anymore, then you just fall into despair because I know I can't do this. Well, yeah, you can't do what you were doing, or you know, we can't you can't be perfect. So but if the belief is that I need to be perfect and I need to, you know, reach and I need to have outcomes, then it's very easy to feel a sense much easier to feel a sense of despair because I know that I haven't reached, I haven't achieved, I haven't gotten to the end, and it seems like it's a place it's too far for me to get to. So then despair is only a natural outcome of that perspective. So shifting the perspective on Avaita Sashem, as we were speaking about before, and saying that it's not necessarily, or it's not at all actually, about outcomes or about achieving. Here's one of the Mekiras, which everybody knows, but for some reason again, it'll it won't sound novel, but it's apparently novel. That Mishnah is describing Avaida Sashem, and it's saying, Mishnah Avas, you know, that the way Avaita Sashem is set up is not for one to finish anything. So why would you be going for the finish line? Or why would you be saying that I need to get somewhere? The Mishnah says that is not how Avaida Hashem is set up. So what is Avaita Hashem about? You need to work, you need to take this seriously. You need to approach this with a sense of importance, and it's very important, and it's super serious. You need to get the job done. You're mitzvah. You know, the Abraha says you have to do these things, you're not allowed to do those things. So we have to approach it with a sense of a willingness to work. If we approach it like that, then of course despair is something that would be a little bit less common because what's there the despair about? You know, if if the point is to reach somewhere, so then I'm not getting there. If the point is to work, then you need to work. So I don't think this addresses the whole component. There's other other parts like that.

SPEAKER_00 44:01

That was so brilliant. That was so brilliant. That has gotta be on a bumper sticker. It's it's because if it's all about results, so then there's a reason to despair. If it's all about work, then you gotta keep working. I'll send you the belt. Okay, perfect. But on both my cards. I still I still have I think I still have my father's credit card. So um It is then also maybe the next follow-up question would be that it's all about work and then there's no end to that. But I guess again, that doesn't really bother me because God commands that we should work. It's God's world after all. Am I correct in just saying it's about the work and God commands it so we'll work until we die?

SPEAKER_01 44:50

It definitely will require a big shift in perspective for most of us because we are so used to having an outcome achievement based perspective. As we mentioned before, it's the world we live in. We value outcome. The American dream, it's about reaching some you know, end game, getting to an outcome. We honor and we value people who look to us you know what we So being successful. So it's a very achievement outcome based world we live in, which affects our body to shem. So it's a it's not as simple as just, you know, reading it on a bumper sticker, which is a good start, I think, Massal. But um it's about a real shift in perspective uh that that that'll, you know, require from us to be able to see that as something that uh as an approach that we can work with. That there is an important work that needs to be done. And and, you know, yeah, it's not about the outcome. It's not. There's definitely more that we could talk about in terms of how to work in a way that can that can be helpful and in a way that can you know help us feel less despairing as we approach these age, but I think that's an important perspective.

SPEAKER_00 45:53

I have I have a couple other pressing matters I think need to be dealt with, and we can't keep you too late here. Um I have all night. Um I guess you can wake up with uh you can come my get my two-year-old at uh once he wakes up at 6 a.m. uh I don't know if that's gonna work, but we there's a couple of matters that I hope that you can solve for me and uh for the rest of the world here as we're solving the world's problems here on the late night edition of the Motivation Higher Text and podcast. Um and that is it isn't exactly mentioned. I can't even think of any source off the top of my mind. Um but you would also mention this and uh and before we started recording. Uh the idea of in the stagging, in the growing the idea of that while I do, I just noticed that when we have a new month we inaugurated with a very we could be blessed for a long life. So it bothered me that we could be blessed for a long life, even though we're only praying for only one month in order to have that goes together. But it definitely feels like the idea would be that there is some sort of longer life or this amount of um this deep, rooted, patient, elongated, healthy type of idea that's behind that made any sense or not. But the patient idea, I can't think of any sorts of data, but you are a big believer in that Euras and I am and that Torah and mitzvot and L should be done patiently. Yet L is only one month. How do those two combine for a beautiful, God-fearing cocktail?

SPEAKER_01 47:39

Yeah, good question. I think it it really boils down to a lot of what we spoke about, you know. It just makes sense to approach something with patience. And it does require that shifting of perspective that uh we have work that needs to be done, and all work happens, you know, slowly. You don't plant seeds in the ground

Patience, Falling, and Growing Upward

SPEAKER_01 48:01

and then come out the next day and see whatever you planted, you know, fully blooming, with you know, if you planted a fruit tree, you don't see those seeds the next day, you don't see the fruit the next day. You have to be patient. Whenever growth is involved, whenever change is involved, we uh can take a good example from the way growth happens in the natural world, the path safety adam each other, and you know, the farm I'll speak about as a comparison there. And the way growth happens is very slowly and one day at a time, and uh, you know, it's not something that happens overnight. We have to be willing to approach our Veda Sashem in the same way. And uh, you know, again, if if you're a brain surgeon and you know, you know you're going in for a 15 hour surgery, let's say, you have to work with patience. You know, you don't want to work with, you know, a sense of uh, you know, bilbul, or I need to get something done already, or or or you know, you you you got you gotta approach the thing patiently. You know, so even though there's a lot of like you said, L is very serious, there's there's there's 40 days, we have to reach Rosh Hashanah, then we have to reach a M. Kippur, the smartest way to do that is to go through it patiently. But here's where like the natural way that people think is that now we we're saying, oh, so you should be mediocre about it, you know, or you should say, well, whatever happens, happens, because I'm just gonna be patient. No, you know, that that's that's no. That's like again going to that other extreme. No, it's very serious. Do the work, work like a madman. It's only 40 days. Yeah. We definitely have to remember that it's very serious and that, you know, you have to hap the chatha, like they said in Yiddish from Ell. I don't think they meant being nervous or overwhelmed. They meant taking the job seriously, but patiently. What else should you do? Patiently, by the way, means that we have to be open to falling, you know. Sometimes the wind comes along, and sometimes, you know, your your your your br your little plant, you know, turns this way or that way. It doesn't always sometimes you have to prune it a little bit. So so growth happens through falling. It's not such a novel idea, but it may sound novel, you know, Shava Yippol Tzadik Vikum. And I think that we take that as a bidy evidence that's why it sounds novel. Like the the we read that thing and we we have a little bit, I think, of an introduction to that pastik. The introduction goes like this. Really, you're never supposed to fall. Really, if you're a you know good person or you're a tzaddik, you never fall. But when I move wants to give you some khidd, so you shouldn't feel the sphere. We said to you, by the way, if you fell, you should get back up because you know the tadiq can move forward. That's not what it says I mean the pasik. By me, it says that's the nature. Shabbat always means that's the nature, seventh. That's good. Yeah. You always we we fall, that's what we do, you know. We there's no perfection. And uh if we can remember that and we can recognize that, that doesn't have to be, therefore, a way that would say, well, then we could do whatever we want. No, it's a way of not falling into despair, and it's a way of being able to work patiently because we recognize that that growth includes falling. There's no way to go through a growth process perfectly. We're going to have failures. So we need to be patient and we need to be able to get back up. And it's much easier to get back up if you have a healthy perspective about what the job of Aveda Zashem is about.

SPEAKER_00 51:29

And is there a way to m to make it a a healthy, let's say I want to make a commitment. Let's talk about commitments. Let's talk about cabalos for a second. That's a big part of it. Having something that you do consistently every day. I'm gonna take on it's a new commitment, I'm gonna wake up on time, I'm gonna wash some niggas next to my bed, I'm gonna kiss them the every single time. Maybe that'll be an exposure exercise,

Commitments That Last Past Yom Kippur

SPEAKER_00 51:51

isn't that even though I'm afraid of the the germs of the acrophobia? Is that what that's called? I don't know. Okay, I forgot that. Um I'm gonna stay in my lane. I'm gonna stay termophobia, I'm gonna stay in my lane there. Um but how can I commit to something stay patient with it, but yet still hit certain benchmarks that the commitment still stands and holds water.

SPEAKER_01 52:18

I was hoping you would ask a question like this, and I think it's super important. I don't know how much time we'll have to address it, but I definitely uh would like to share a few points. So I think that that the commitment factor, right, and being able to keep a commitment and part of what our experience tells us is that we don't guess it we don't follow through and we don't our commitments don't last. And that goes back to the despair that you mentioned earlier that we tend to feel because hey, the commitment I made last year doesn't last. How do we make good commitments? How can we make commitments that last? What do we need to do to make that work? Just to to like uh you know illustrate the challenge, uh uh just a little short story. So I mentioned I was living in ICR after I got married, and I I used to end up sometimes in a shoulder with quite an interesting, eccentric rabbi who used to speak there, you know, at various times, and it was in Ell, before Rachana, I think, or before I'm keep or somewhere in the you know in the high holiday season. And he got up and he basically said uh a whole speech about how chuva's impossible. There's no way to do chuva, it just doesn't work. There's no way for us to be able to do this. I've been there before, I've done it, and it just doesn't work, and there's really nothing that you can do about it because let's be honest, we all, you know, fake our way through this time and we try and it just doesn't have any lasting impact. So there's basically no way to do it. And his only saving grace for that was like the kind of what you know, his point to say, okay, so what then? He said, Well, at least we we, you know, have a little bit of an upheaval in Ell, and in that way we save ourselves from major punishment. There's such an idea mentioned in the finough, you know, that uh that that comes along to forgive all the very because if everything would collect up without uh without end, it would the vainest would be so much more than the cleaning of the world. Right. So that kind of like cleans the slate a little bit, but of course it doesn't really work. And when I heard this, you know, uh the question is a burning question, definitely. But I I was at the same time terribly, terribly, you know, disappointed that that's the only thing that you can offer people. It was basically despair, you know? Uh so so that's your selling point. And it also really bothered me that the Tara in speaking about Chuva upcoming in one of these parshias. So I'm obviousoso. Yeah. So it's painful, it's so painful, Michal, because we experience it as something that's impossible. The rabbi was simply speaking what so many of us feel, you know, and and as you mentioned, like just doesn't work, you know? Wow, it doesn't work. So but if the potato says it's simple, you know, lay in a flace, you know. So how do we approach this in a way that works? How can we do something with our elf? How can we do something with our yum de rum? I don't have the foolproof answer, but I have some suggestions.

SPEAKER_00 54:55

Oh, so okay, good. Yeah, what's the cameras are zooming in, the microphones, the volumes are fully up, and we are all ears. Please save us.

SPEAKER_01 55:05

We'll do my best. So I'll try to save myself first, and hopefully, through saving myself, I'll I'll bend through. I hope that we are in there too. Yeah. Okay. So uh we you can't start with everything, okay? So you can't change. This is also something that should be pretty obvious. Only a young boy, you know, at the start of his journey, you know, comes I'm gonna become the next God. It doesn't work that way, okay? So if we have problems in our Avaid Tasham, in our mitzvists and our Avairas, if we have certain Avairas that we struggle with, certain mitzvyths that we struggle with, you can't work on everything at once. You can't approach everything at once that just doesn't work. So what do you pick? You know, okay, you know, there are some guidelines for that too. It it usually you should try to pick something that you feel is either a super hard struggle for you or a super important mitzvah or a super super important Aveira or something that can have more of an impact on your life if you work on this as opposed to if you work on something that has less of an impact. You know, sometimes people pick, I'm sorry to say, silly Kabbalah, you know, things that won't really have any lasting impact, but you feel like you're doing something. It it's not really, you know, adding so much to one's Aveda Sashem if they uh, you know, we'll say commit to cutting their fingernails according to Halacha. Something like that, let's say, yes. And and I don't want to be, you know, people are gonna ask me the story like this and stuff like that. I can't answer to every story, but yeah. See that that is that is something that doesn't seem to add so much, you know, or if I'll say an extra two kapetloks, Tahilim Afidan, Tehilim is wonderful. It's wonderful. But these are not, you know, things that are necessarily gonna create a change. Shuva means that we have to have some type of returning, some type of different mindset, different attitude, right? Yeah, exactly. So we have to go to things that are going to be a little bit more personal, a little bit more uh influential in our in our lives, in in our in the way we approach Obeda Sashem. Okay, so that's in terms of how to pick something, how to work on something, either where we really struggle or things that'll be a real big change drug, or things that are super important, which for so many people they're a lot of the same things, you know. We all could learn better, we all could dab in better, we all struggle with certain things. You brought up Kadusha struggles that does seem to be a universal struggle these days, not only because I see it, everybody's aware of it. There's so many movements and there's so many uh, you know, you know, all of them Givaldig, you know, that they're trying to create more Kadusha and Kalya, so we had an Asifa 15 years ago in the city field. There's a problem, and uh, you know, Samainam definitely, uh most people struggle with this in some way. So definitely a lot of us can relate to areas where in general we all need to be working on. So how do you approach that? How do you approach it in a way that could work? What should you do? How do you do it in a way that could last? So, one thing that we want to be able to think about is why we struggle in the area that we struggle. And that is something that very few people ever will pay attention to or contemplate. Why is this so hard for me? Why do I struggle with it? Let's pick an example. Let's say that somebody struggled with um Davening with Kavana, even for any part of Davening. Okay, we're not going to tackle the whole Davening. Let's say somebody says, I want to be Machab in the first Brahmarati. Why is that hard for me? What gets in my way? We have to be able to think about that. If we don't think about why a struggle is hard for us, but we only think about I want to change, I want to do it, I want to learn more. That's another one. I want to incorporate more learning into my day. If I don't think about, well, why am I not? Why hasn't it worked in the past? Why is it that I struggle to learn more time? What's getting in my way? If I don't think about that, it's going to be very hard to make some type of commitment that has any hope of lasting if I'm not addressing what the issue is that's getting in my way, what's my obstacle. Does that make any sense, Nicole?

SPEAKER_00 58:56

It's so brilliant and yet so simple, which is normally the phat that is is the one that is the true phat. Um in in it seems like you're addressing that the FIBA, the cause, the causation, the causative factor is what we're trying to drill down to. And we're trying to say that the reason why the whole brook doesn't pay attention at the beginning of this one ether is maybe it's because I didn't get enough effects. Maybe it's because it's just because I'm at 80%, or I don't actually enjoy or feel a connection in prayer. Let's say it's those things. Okay, fine. So you're nodding your head for those that are listening. So great. So now I have a new problem. Well, I have two problems. One is I'm not sure which one is actually the causative factor. And number two is okay, what to do about this unknown subterranean uh issue.

SPEAKER_01 59:53

Yeah. So I I was nodding because you said so many, so many plausible factors that could get in the way of concentrating by divening. There could be somebody who's not sleeping enough. Well then, you know, I that you know should give you some indication about what you need to be doing. If you make some commitment to be divening better, you have to include with that some possibility of sleeping enough. If that's possible. Otherwise, you're not making a good commitment. Otherwise, maybe this isn't, you know, if you're if you have, you know, babies and you're, you know, you work the night shift, maybe you can't work on this right now in your life. But if you can, by recognizing that what's getting in your way is fatigue, you have obviously a better way of judgment. If you recognize I'm a little bit spacey, I tend to space out, okay, what can help you stay focused? Would it be maybe deciding that part of your commitment to Muhammad and the first bracha is putting your finger on the first bracha, each word. Don't worry about what people around you are thinking, you know? Your point. Baruch Atta Hashem. I tried it myself. Works pretty well because you are literally creating the focus by putting your finger on the place, and the word is simply, you know, like jumping right back at you, you know? So that could help if you recognize that this is what I can do because for me it's about focus. Another example you said, Michael, was maybe I don't have an appreciation for tsvila. Maybe I just don't know what this is about. Well, guess what? There's a million farm that were written on tsvila. Find one that resonates with you. Find a way to develop meaning. Maybe you just have to know what the meaning of Pirashamila saw in that first braka.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:29

There's a lot of important words there, but I don't know what the difference between Hakel, Hagadal, Hagib, Hanorah is. It's all the same to me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:37

So so the truth is that uh, you know, sometimes it's not necessarily knowing the distinct meaning of each word, but sometimes just having an appreciation for the concept which is behind the brakkha, which is enough for Kavana, by the way. You know, you don't have to think each word how it's different than the other. I I know that that could be a little bit of a kick for people who like reading a million Purushama on each word, especially when it comes to Yamam Nairam. But um it's more about understanding what this bracha represents. You know, what does the brach of Avit mean? You know, what is this about? You start with a Ram, Yitka Kanyaka, if you end up with maybe Gaya, we're talking about, you know, the Gaul of Mashiach, something. So we end off with a what what's it what's this bracha about? It might be something worth thinking about. And if I get interested, if I see that this bracha can somehow have more meaning in my life, now I have a better chance if I'm coming to make a Kabbalah, a commitment to work on Kabbalah, because you mentioned the cult so many great possibilities by be just taking a little bit of time contemplating why is this hard for me. Maybe davening is hard for me, mincha is a disaster because I come running in late somewhere, and my the the nature of my mind is that I get so into what I do, and there's no possibility for me to like create some headspace to be able to damage my nest right. That's why this is so hard for me. Or maybe because I come late to the chakra. So, oh, okay, one second. So for me, mincha has to mean I have to get to shool five minutes early just to sit a little bit, you know. That would be another example of by recognizing what's getting in my way. And we just spoke about Davine, but we can speak about so many things. Because Dhammani is like a mitzvah, positive thing. Learning, something gets in my way of learning, something gets in my way by average. There's a reason why I struggle with kiddusha. Yes, even if we said universal struggle, but there's something about it that for me makes it difficult. There's something that I am looking for, there's something that it's doing for me that making it very hard for me to just make a commitment that say, I'm not gonna do it anymore, I'm gonna stop. Well, why do you do it? What speaks by the way, Mikhal, this is Allah Mishnah. The Mishnah says an avis, Abamikhashev, Hefsid Mithva Kanegat Kara, with Tkhar Aveira Kenegat Feidah Here's what that means. Hefsid Mithva Knegat Kara means you have to think about what am I losing out when I do the mitzvah, and then what do I stand to gain by doing the mitzvah? And I have to think about the sharavira, how am I benefiting from the comparing to what I'm losing from the Aveira. So you see for the Mishnah, it's not enough just to contemplate the the Hefsi Aveira or the Skar Mitzvah. That's all that most of us do. Uh we basically just focus on why I need to be doing what I need to be doing. Uh the the shthar mitzvah or the heftira veira without focusing on, well, why is there a sharavera? What is this a veira doing for me? And what is the heftid mitzvah? What is the mitzvah? What is the part that's difficult for me in this mitzvah? If you don't think about that, well, then you're you're ignoring the Mishnah's advice to how to work on your Avaidashem.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:40

It's the whole, it's the whole point of the world, even that's audacious claim. But it seems like our entire job, according to the Rambam in his uh book, Mishnah Torah, in the I believe it's chapter one or two, when he advises as to how to come to the love of God, is to contemplate Torah, God's wisdom, God's world, and learn about it. But it's ultimately to then say what's the cause of all of this. What is the result? What's driving the effect from your sources are very much into any tools that get stuck at the outcomes and the results. But smart people understand why things are happening. That's leaping to mind. I'd like to take this to the 13 hour of the show as we take here past midnight. Um, I guess we can put a little pause here for any parents that are listening or anyone else, that maybe the content wouldn't be suitable for them. I don't imagine we'll get too off the rails here, but content hopefully that will be helpful to people. Um that commands that it's pretty open that um any rudeness of the graph do not even come near it, and uh that includes any sort of viewing of immorality, and it definitely includes any sort of talking of immorality or all of the other lateral and dead effects of the actual sense, immoral sense. You're an expert in this area, and um I can imagine that your phone is ringing off the house because it does seem that like the data, gain of artifacts in idolatry, and gain of artifacts in data and stealing. I mean, I guess maybe that's still a little bit of style, but it just seems like if a diamond does force people that struggle with ahead of every single person that you're just in the data with things that

Find Your Block and Build Focus

SPEAKER_00 1:07:11

you can even When you're walking across the street that you are really even unable to step out of the way of fast advertisement effects or really kind of feel stuck in this area when you couple that with that something that naturally feels something that the natural desire of a person is spiritual growth faster than nearly anything. Is it immoral, arrayed, lewdness? How do we help ourselves during L. How does a person go about it? Someone walks into your office and says, I am just a well-meaning, good person, and I watch things I shouldn't watch or do things I shouldn't do, and I wish I could stop, but I can't. Please help me. What do you say?

SPEAKER_01 1:08:05

Wow. So uh very, very uh difficult uh topic to address in a very short kind of way. And uh as you mentioned, something that I think uh a lot of people can identify with. But let's talk about it a little bit. So I think that uh in short, a lot of it would be connected to what we spoke about earlier, and this is definitely something that I address with my clients, and that is that we also uh have to go back to what we spoke about before again, about being able to approach this in a way of work, not in a way of only success and outcome, especially as the problem is so prevalent, as the problem is so all over the place, and uh for somebody who already struggles with it to have the thought that I'm going to be able to completely get this out of my life and stop cold turkey and I'm never going to have any failing, that is completely unrealistic and it's not going to work, and it'll only bring on this fear when the person, you know, has their first fall or when they recognize that the that the you know that the challenge is too big for them to overcome. So one of the most helpful things that I share with my clients is actually um I can share this a uh short little uh saying that I heard based on a story. So here goes. So Rabnul Ullawik, what I mentioned before, um I heard from him that uh when he was learning um as a yeshiva baker, this goes back probably 60 years ago or so, he was learning about Vigder Miller. I'm not sure where the story took place, which yeshiva. I imagine it was in Obkhaim Berlin where Vigder Miller was the Mashkiach there. And uh one day, uh Rabnul K Ulawick, his Khavrutha comes in and he confines to Rabnoach, he tells him, you know, uh my Yek Sahara is driving me crazy. It's just too much. I I I I don't know what to do anymore. And he was referring to this Yaitsa, the Yatzaharayah. So Rabnoach said Khabrutha, he said, Listen, why don't you go ask Rebbi? Maybe he'll have a suggestion for you. He goes over to Vigna Miller, and Vigdamiller is sitting there, and this uh Talmud leans over and he says, Rebbe, I don't know what to do. My Yethar is driving me crazy. I just don't have a you know a solution for it. Vigda Miller looks up at him and he says, Don't worry about it. The first hundred years are the hardest.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:24

I'm not sure what to do with that.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:25

I've kind of myself. The response that Vig Demiller was saying to him was that part of what makes the challenge so overwhelming is when a person's unwillingness to recognize that this is not something that you can just solve in a moment. And that, you know, if you only have the right solution and the right strategy, then you would be able to overcome this once and for all and live the glorious life that you would want to. The Gduja, Matahaira, and you'll be like the Malachem in Shemaya. No, that's not a good way to approach this. And in fact, that's only going to create this overwhelming sense that this buckar felt. I don't know what to do about this type of thing. Calm down, you know. Of course you have failings. Don't worry about it. The first hundred years are the hardest. Be prepared to work. It's so much connected with all to everything we spoke about earlier. If you need to be some perfect person and you never need to have, never allowed to have any failings, then you are going to feel very full of shame and despair with this struggle. But if you recognize that you need to work, definitely we have to have a way to work. And that goes back a little bit to what we talked about before, creating a way to understand. This is something I do with my clients as well. We have to understand why we struggle the way we struggle. Um, but but but at the same time, we have to recognize that this is something that we have to be willing to work on. And if we're willing to work, not only succeed and achieve, that makes the whole approach to it a lot less overwhelming and a lot more sensible, and a willingness then to engage in the work because it's about What is the work? What is the work?

SPEAKER_00 1:11:58

You want to know how we do the work, you want to know how how I how do I work hard? Is it protection? Is it filters? Is it not going out? Is it maybe committing to praying harder? What is the work? All of the above.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:12

Uh, you know, it's it's so hard to address in a in a short way. If the work is whatever works, you know, how do you run a business? You know, how do you how do you, you know, run a business? You you have to figure out what works, you know. Sometimes this works, sometimes that works. A Vedas Hishem should be run like a business lab though, you know? Sometimes this works, sometimes that works. But definitely when you're running a business, you can't sit on the couch and do nothing. You can't be overwhelmed. Oh my gosh, I have bills to pay at the end of the month. How am I ever gonna get there? And it's so hard, you know. You have to figure out some strategies to create a good business plan and a good way of working, not a way of reaching uh uh uh ten million dollars. You don't have to want to be the world build you don't have to want to be Elon Musk or Jeff Bezos in order to work in your business. This is another good example, you know? I have to have a Shifa to be like Jeff Bezos, then I'll work in my business. Otherwise, why would I get up and go to work in the morning? That's that's absolute foolishness. No, because you have bills to pay. There's something very serious and important that needs to get done, so you have to figure out how to do it. But now you ask him, call how do I do it? Like what what so so there are different strategies and for Kedusa, what are the strategies? How can you work on it? It really depends on what the person's particular struggle is. And yes, you have to incorporate a lot of different things to help people who struggle with it. What are some of the ways that we help people who, you know, have a struggle? How can you approach us in a way that works? Um you have to find something that resonates with you as to why you want to work on it. And this also goes back to speaking about commitments in general. So one point we made about commitments earlier was to find something that find the reason why something is hard for us. But now that we found, let's say, why something is a struggle for us, the second half of it is what the Mishnah called, you know, the uh the benefit, the uh karmita, like what what can I get out of doing this that would resonate with me? So if I decide to, for example, just work on Kadusha simply because it's wrong and I don't want to do it, and even if I understand, you know, why I have a pull to it, but now I don't introduce any reason or anything that resonates with me for why I would like to work on this, then that's going to be a very difficult challenge because I have nothing that's fueling my drive or my energy to work other than that I don't want to be doing this. Or an example of what I want to be doing, let's say, when it comes to cabalism, I just want to do it, but I don't have anything that speaks to me. But remember earlier when we spoke about Dappening, we said some solutions about go with something that works, right? So for Kedusha, for example, finding a reason why that might resonate. I gave some examples earlier about, let's say, work, you know, doing exercise. You know, if all I I knew was that I need to do exercise, because the doctor said I need to do exercise, it might fizzle out pretty fast. But if I could attach in my own mind some reason why that's important to me, let's say I value my health and I value being around for my family for a long time, and I can link my exercise with being healthy. So then now I have a very strong reason why, even if it's 12 o'clock at night and I'm, you know, finishing off my late show here with Mahal by the pleasure of speaking to, I might still change into my jogging clothing and go for a job, even though I'm not so in the mood, because the idea of exercising resonates with me in my life. Because it has some importance and some meaning in doing it. So going to Kedusha, it's very difficult to give an example that'll resonate with everybody. But let's give one, okay? Let's say somebody who's married struggles in the area of Kedusha. There could be some ideas that might motivate them and resonate with them to say why it's helpful for them to work on Kedusha because it adds, for example, to a healthier relationship with their spouse, which they value. That could resonate. When I don't engage in something that's a a contradiction or

Kedusha Struggles and Practical Strategy

SPEAKER_01 1:16:01

something that's going to interfere, and recognizing that, that interferes with my commitment to my wife or my ability to relate to her in an appropriate way. Or I can recognize that um it's about loyalty, and that's something that resonates with me. If I find some way to approach our my commitment in a way that it has a it it resonates as to what I'm going to keep on using, I'll also have a much easier chance of getting it done. I want to just sum up, Michal, like three points that I that I want to make in terms of commitments. So one is to recognize why something is difficult. Once we understand that, as we spoke about earlier, it'll be be a lot more simple to now find a way to address what we need to address in terms of the Kabbalah, the commitment we want to make. The second point is to find on the flip side then, well, why it's difficult, but now why would I want to do it? What could resonate about davening for me? What could resonate about learning? Why is learning important? I know now why it's difficult for me for all the reasons that you know we didn't mention, but there could be many reasons. Okay, why is that important now? Why would I want to devote another half hour a day to learning? There could be different parts of Talmudayra, the mitzvah Talmudayra that speaks to me personally. When I connect a part of that to my commitment, when I connect my own interests and something that would be interesting and motivate me, that gives a far more impactful and lasting Kabbalah because now there's a reason why I would keep it up. Even come Turim time, even come Hanukkah time, because it still makes sense to exercise even six months after you see the doctor, not only the next day. If it's all about getting all scared and nervous, the doctor says you need it for your heart. So you have to emerge, oh, I get all nervous, so you'll jog for a week and then you'll say it's too hard. But if you say, you know what, health is important, my family's important, my life, that could keep up six months later also. I connect some idea that resonates with me, and therefore I could keep up this commitment and it'll keep on going. Like here's a third very important point doable, practical. This is something that I think people probably heard before. You know, you can't make a big commitment, you can't commit to going ex jogging every single night. You know, that's not gonna last. Because maybe you could decide, you know, two to three nights a week, you can't commit to Daviding the whole Schminastra to come on, even if you understand why David is hard, which is point number one. Even if you understand, and now you something about Daviding resonates with you. You got point number two, you're not gonna keep that up because the whole Schminastra, you know. You're not gonna be able to learn an extra five hours a day. You're not gonna be able to completely, you know, with Kedusha with late SA gets very tricky. So we can we can never condone doing negative things, but we have to be practical about how to work on it. I could talk more about that. I know it's very late. But the third point was doing it a Kabbalah, a commitment that's practical. If we put these three things together, when it comes to commitments, I've tried it myself, you can have a much far lasting impact, much beyond, you know, Matsyam Kippur, beyond Sukkis, even beyond Kanaka, even beyond Purim, if you understand why you struggle where you struggle, if now you make a uh uh effort to add on something that why this resonates with you, why you want to do what you're doing, why you want to work on this myth, why you want to work on this very, and to make a Kabbalah that's very super practical, that you're you do have to put an effort, like you can't sit on your couch, you know, whether that's 10 minutes more of learning, whether that's first breath of manages right, whether that's doing X, Y, and Z when it comes to gadusha, what you're going to do specifically, practically, but have to be very practical. If you do that, Mahal, nothing is guaranteed in life. We're not perfect. We might have some failings along the way. Actually, we'll definitely have some failings along the way. But um, you know, but I think that that can be helpful.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:40

That is it's a it's super helpful. I it's it's like I'm jumping out of my skin type of helpful.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:45

Um You're gonna try, Michal, and you're gonna I'm gonna see you in short part in time, and you're gonna t say to me, if you know, some of the ideas we spoke about and some of the things that maybe you tried, that you might say to me, you know, this is the first year, well not you, I know you're a perfect guy. But let's just say you might say to me part in time, this is the first time that I actually use these strategies, and I am keeping a commitment that I made from I don't know, Rosh Hashano or even beginning of vowel, till now because it it it made sense because I know why I was hard. Once I figured that out, I knew what I had to do to address it, and I worked on that, I worked on it, and I I did something super simple, you know. It was only five minutes, or it was only one bracha, or it was only this. And I and of course, that doesn't mean it's gonna be easy. Like, yeah, it's harder for him time, but you still have a reason to push through. Like I said, it's not easy after the you know, ending the show at twelve thirty to get up and you know, I've I'd rather go into bed maybe, but it it still has a possibility of influencing me and me actually doing what it is that I'm committing to committed to doing. You gotta know your why. You gotta know your why. Is that something we can say? You gotta know why you're doing it. Exactly. And it's it's so simple, but so many people never think about it. All they say is, oh Safe, look at this whole list. Uh, you know, I look at the Khidar from out of the tough. I have a problem with everything, and I need to change everything. So I'm gonna work on changing everything, and I'm gonna get all nervous, I'm maintaining you often, and then nothing works, you know? Or even those who are a little bit more intelligent say, you know what, I'm not gonna work on everything. I know Joseph says you have to make up the ball, Katana, so I'll work on one thing. But then they never thought about points one or two, you know? Either why is it so hard for me, you know, and they never thought about, well, why do I want to work on this? Other than I know that God says you need to work on it. That's what the Mishnah calls, you know, that the you know, the uh Hefsa Veyro or the Skarnetso, but you have to know, you know, why that's important to you. If you can find something that resonates, you have a far stronger reason to be able to have your commitment be lasting and why you'll want to work on it.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:44

Um Lag Baimer and the summer and I remember I remember when I first got a why for Torah study. When it was when it was when I was in Yeshiva, it was it was you know, you had to learn because that's how you get a good kiddok and that's how you kind of just float through and make friends or do that's cool. It's cool to to learn now. Only less cool people don't learn. Um but once I got a why, which is that I wanted my family to think that I was super holy and do a lot of Torah, like it actually mattered to me. And then I also wanted to have ulterior motive. I wanted to be the most well educated so that I could go ahead and maybe become a big rabbi and get paid and I want to pay my bills. And if I'm a bad rabbi, I can only make $40,000. But if I'm a great rabbi, even though it was uh it was a bad ulterior motive. Um I when I found a bad why, but at least it was a real why that resonated for me. It it it helped spur some a better memory because it mattered more, more energy. Um hitting the gym in younger years, I had a why that wanted to make sure that the person I was guarding in basketball had a miserable life and and we would win. So now there's a reason to hit the gym, and there's a why there. So it's it's coming in. And and I would like to conclude with one last um, um hopefully thinking at a healthy effective opening up of a woman type of topic. And that is maybe we're all beginning in climbing up the hill of tools, but we don't really need to climb the hill. We just need to continue to try our best to climb the hill and do it in a healthy, balanced way, and we're gonna work really hard, and we're gonna do it fast. We have all these points there. So you have to remove your students to the grounded holding. You have to be honest with yourself. Removing all of your students have to have to be honest with the honest with honesty to say, to have the last understanding of saying the university space, does you need to other believe left and all the self-righteous or mass or read that we put out instead of we have to be out of ourselves of certain things we have, but we're out with ourselves and then we look back at that and bring back some past demons and also bring us down and take us to the bottom of very honest trend. So I think the deepest trend in in the world, the lowest um c level. But how do we in a very healthy way look at our past and be honest with our mistakes and still attempt to climb the mountain of chuva? I promise I'll let you go after this. I promise.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:55

What does that mean? What does that mean? That means that uh, you know, when a wise person asks a question, very often the answer is within the question or a big part of the answers within the question. So I was referring to the way you just kind of set up the question, speaking about, you know, being able to be honest with ourselves and you know, being able to do that is definitely a challenge. And uh, you know, it's something though that will be easier, if I'm gonna keep on referring to everything that we kept on saying here tonight, um, if we can recognize that it's okay not to be perfect, it's okay to struggle. First hundred years are the hardest, you know, the Matsu Tisharam in the beginning of his say for Zahir, he uh is not trying to make this particular point. He's

Honest Teshuva Without Shame

SPEAKER_01 1:25:41

he's bringing this concept or this idea for something else. But what he does say is if he brings a whole litany of examples of some of the greatest people in our history who all had failures. He says Abram failed when he said Bama Ada and Yaqava Vinu had failures. And they were all they were all punished brutally. Yes, definitely. So that's actually the point he's coming to make, which it can open up a whole other topic here, McCall, and we can have a different night open for that if you like. And he's waking up here in a couple hours, but yeah. Yeah. But but what he does say is, which you can't ignore, the fact. The fact is, is that there was never a human being. I don't think never, but he's basically bringing out the point that there's almost never, at least, a human being. We're not going to be greater than Avram or Yaakov or or any of the people he lived there, or any of the great men or women. And uh therefore we can very much, and and on Tilti Sharm is written as a safer to work on Avaid Hashem. You know, the purpose of this safer is to help you work. And he starts out in the beginning of the saver saying, Well, Avram never made it, and Yaakov never, you know, really made it, and everybody had failing, so you know, so so what you just say? Oh, obviously he means to say, well, good luck, so you may as well do nothing. No, so get to work. Get to work, you know. So what? You're not perfect. I'm not perfect, nobody's perfect. If we can acknowledge that, then it's easier for us to have a little bit more of an honest look at ourselves without feeling so broken. But if we feel like I'm the only one who struggles, which by the way, when it comes to Gaducia, I think in today's world it's it's it's more uh widespread that people recognize it's a universal challenge. But often you see the Bakram still will come in, you know, with the feeling that like I must be the only one in the world who struggles with this. You know, which of course adds to a lot of shame about the topic. But if we can recognize, and that's part actually tr for those types of people, part of the work is just recognizing that it's a struggle, you know. Um sometimes, you know, as a question about therapy, you know, sometimes uh a a bunker who's struggling with this just needs a little bit of education and just the understanding that he's not the only one who's struggling with this to help him just be able to function better, not be so destroyed when he recognizes that, hey, formal, you know, this is a normal struggle. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:58

That is is is it's almost like in this interview i it it it gives El more hope and more opportunity. It makes it feel like we've restored here, hopefully, some element of the I found the film to go and say that it's uh you may have rough on the they're they're good happy dates. They're not scary dates, they're data out of fully introspection, honest introspection. And I love what you said there, and perhaps we can conclude that the it's this idea of I am a person, and it's a challenge, the first 99 years of the hardest. And um but I love getting to work. And I thought I'll fight an optimal, that just inspires me to keep working on it and to make some marked commitments based on understanding the root causes of some of the challenges. And when I give myself a why and I get myself a reason to decide, and I give myself a purpose, and I go about it in a systematic way, then success is imminent, Uva is probable, and um we'll all think kumbaya with crowns on our heads in the future of paradise in Olam Haba. Is that a summary?

SPEAKER_01 1:29:36

That's an amazing summary, Michal. And it sounds like such a great episode that I'll make sure to listen to it myself because uh I also can use uh some help with uh doing Shuva and figuring out how to approach this. So I hope to gain some great ideas from this uh episode.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:50

This is so good. I thank you so much for your time. And any person definitely that needs or wants and is strongly encouraged to reach out. I'll leave all the ways I can get in touch with you. Hopefully it won't be, I'm definitely not going to go about putting your cell phone number, but there'll be an office number. So if someone wants to learn more about the ways that you can help people one on one and go about this in a certain way, um highly encouraged and I'll leave that for them. Um and thank you very much for your time. Uh Steva Vasima Tova. And thank you. Pleasure. Pleasure was mine.