Nov. 21, 2025

K&K Episode 2: Time Is Your Only Deal!

What if the difference between burnout and momentum is a single word: invest? We take a hard look at time as capital—168 hours a week that must earn returns in income, learning, health, and family presence—and share how that mindset changes the way we work deals, parent, and grow spiritually.

Our conversation moves from values to velocity. We lay out a practical model for a young parent balancing career growth, Torah study, and showing up at home, starting with a year-long direction and weekly levers that actually move it. Early mornings become a force multiplier, trading late-night drift for quiet, focused hours that compound. On the work side, we unpack qualifying deals with ruthless clarity: build a living spreadsheet, pursue only what has a real next step, and keep pushing the tortoise way. Busy is a trap; closings pay. You’ll hear why a property management start builds real estate instincts, how leasing teaches value, and how sales teaches nerve.

Then we get blunt about money and trust. If they said it, they can sign it. Commissions at the table are only safe when the terms are written, and the professionals who define their fee and scope upfront earn respect—and checks. We share the near-miss closing story, the lesson that most people want to get paid more than they want you paid, and the rare joy of partners who say “protect yourself.” Along the way, we draw a line from radical honesty in marriage to radical clarity in business: truth sets you free to be fully present when it counts.

If you’re ready to stop spending hours and start investing them, hit play. Subscribe for more real estate strategy, time tactics, and grounded stories from the field, and leave a review with your biggest time shift from this week.

Support the show

------------------------

Ready to Level Up Your Kesef & Kinyan Journey?

🎙️ Connect with Michoel Brooke (Host):

Call: (757) 679-4497
Email: mbrooke@imperialnj.com

Interested in coaching, business consulting, or a personal meeting with Mr. Lefcoe?

Contact his Personal Assistant directly at: (757) 831-9696

📧 Email Kevin Lefcoe: klefcoe@davlef.com

00:00 - Kicking Off And Redefining Time

05:10 - Time Is Limited, Make It Count

07:44 - The 168-Hour Week And Daily Rhythm

12:25 - A Young Parent’s Balancing Act

19:22 - Priorities, Focus, And Deal Selection

23:47 - Career Origin: From Dentistry To Deals

31:17 - Crisis Business And Loving The Game

34:52 - Real Education Versus Course Education

37:32 - Get It In Writing And Get Paid

WEBVTT

00:01:35.369 --> 00:01:35.849
All right.

00:01:36.250 --> 00:01:57.369
Let's kick off this edition of the Kesf and Kenyon podcast with uh a lot of excitement because Dad, did you know that our first episode is on track to do not hundreds of downloads, but maybe even a thousand downloads at the end of two months?

00:01:57.849 --> 00:01:58.489
I don't get it.

00:01:58.569 --> 00:01:59.849
Why two months?

00:02:00.169 --> 00:02:06.169
Well, they I get like a projection based on how many people listen per day per week.

00:02:08.250 --> 00:02:10.810
I reckon that's a lot of help for a lot of people.

00:02:11.370 --> 00:02:12.329
Well, I hope so.

00:02:14.009 --> 00:02:20.409
Dad, today's episode, I want to deal with the most important part of real estate.

00:02:20.729 --> 00:02:34.889
Uh that's just an uh an assessment and opinion, which is the time that you spend in real estate and how to spend it wisely and how to spend it in a well-organized fashion.

00:02:35.370 --> 00:02:49.050
Um there are a couple different things to break it down and get as linear and as granular as possible, but there's also a work-life balance that everyone needs to strike.

00:02:49.530 --> 00:02:55.849
And I I think yours should be called uh the time management rabbi because you're pretty good at it.

00:02:56.729 --> 00:02:57.050
Okay.

00:02:57.769 --> 00:03:16.649
Well, maybe you could give us a tip or two about how is it that you developed your time management uh philosophy and finding the perfect strike between uh being at every single event for the family, maybe, and also spending time in the office.

00:03:17.129 --> 00:03:20.009
Well, perfection is uh is an intention.

00:03:20.170 --> 00:03:23.209
It's not it it's really unattainable.

00:03:23.289 --> 00:03:32.250
Uh, you know, uh I I like to I like to think that those who are perfectionists can't really find happiness because none of us is perfect.

00:03:32.490 --> 00:03:35.370
I want to just mention one thing, Michael, before we go on.

00:03:35.610 --> 00:03:41.610
You uh you mentioned this a couple of times just now about sp how you spend your time.

00:03:41.689 --> 00:03:48.729
How the word spending came up in terms of uh of of uh how you deal in real estate.

00:03:48.889 --> 00:03:57.849
And I think that you you have to change the the language and you know the words that you use are very empowering uh or or the opposite for that matter.

00:03:58.090 --> 00:04:01.210
Um and I think the word better is invest.

00:04:01.769 --> 00:04:03.370
How do you invest your time?

00:04:03.530 --> 00:04:08.169
Because anything that you're doing, I think has to deal with time.

00:04:08.409 --> 00:04:14.969
It has to do with investing it, because you're really you're you're you're seeking a result and a return.

00:04:15.210 --> 00:04:29.769
And and just like uh anything that you uh whether it be money or time or personal energy, it's an investment because that's all you have in life is is is what it is really your time.

00:04:29.850 --> 00:04:38.810
And it's you know, as Rocky said, it's undefeated when uh when when the when the Pollard's kid said what got him, he said, time is undefeated.

00:04:39.049 --> 00:04:42.889
And as I'm getting older, I'm realizing that making everyday count.

00:04:43.049 --> 00:04:44.409
We say that all the time.

00:04:44.569 --> 00:04:56.889
You say it, you know, your coaches say it, but making everyday count uh is really uh important because truly I learned this from someone else, but this is not a dress rehearsal.

00:04:57.049 --> 00:04:59.129
It isn't gonna be okay when.

00:04:59.529 --> 00:05:01.210
It's gonna be okay today.

00:05:01.370 --> 00:05:18.730
This is now, and we're living in this moment, and everything that happened is to learn from, and everything that's gonna happen in the future is really in God's hands, and we just have to make the most of what we have because we are on this uh in this world as we are now for a very short time.

00:05:18.970 --> 00:05:21.129
In a hundred years, it's all new people.

00:05:22.329 --> 00:05:35.850
I love I mean, that's this week Asaf said Asaf said to himself or to Yaakov when he was thinking about buying the birthright, and he said, uh, why do I need all this?

00:05:35.930 --> 00:05:38.490
Uh I almost I'm I'm gonna die.

00:05:38.649 --> 00:05:53.850
And all of this is meaningless, but the way that you see it, dad, and a way some of the Bali Musar, the great thinkers see it, is that time being limited, Asaf saw that as a reason to give up and a reason to forsake.

00:05:54.089 --> 00:06:00.569
But right, the the you're saying the opposite, that time being limited should not depress.

00:06:00.889 --> 00:06:05.050
Time being limited, if I'm getting this right, should inspire action.

00:06:05.129 --> 00:06:05.930
Is that what you're saying?

00:06:06.089 --> 00:06:06.329
Yeah.

00:06:06.810 --> 00:06:09.050
I would I would think that's a really good way to say it.

00:06:09.290 --> 00:06:21.209
Look, you know, Michael, when you talk about time management, you can just start with nobody, no matter what you have, who you are, you get 168 hours in a week.

00:06:21.370 --> 00:06:22.329
That's it.

00:06:22.569 --> 00:06:30.969
And how you use them, a certain amount you're gonna sleep, a certain amount you're gonna get yourself ready for your day, a certain amount of time you're gonna dive in.

00:06:31.129 --> 00:06:34.089
Not all of those, not in the particular order.

00:06:34.409 --> 00:06:38.569
So what is it that you're gonna do with the rest of your time?

00:06:38.730 --> 00:06:39.610
You could map it out.

00:06:39.689 --> 00:06:40.730
I mean, there are people who do.

00:06:40.889 --> 00:06:42.009
I don't, I don't.

00:06:42.089 --> 00:06:50.250
I I I have uh I have a uh a daily rhythm uh that I try to tweak in terms of uh of being more effective.

00:06:50.329 --> 00:06:55.930
But a lot of that has being more effective has to do with uh keeping your mind sharp as best you can.

00:06:56.089 --> 00:06:58.089
God willing, you have a sharp mind.

00:06:58.329 --> 00:07:05.050
Some of us don't, as we talked about recently, but uh having a sharp mind means getting the right amount of rest.

00:07:05.209 --> 00:07:07.370
And it also and and not too much rest.

00:07:07.449 --> 00:07:15.850
You know, we talked about when you take a test that you shouldn't sleep too much the night before, that you wake up with a with a certain you need to eat right.

00:07:15.930 --> 00:07:18.730
You know, eating right has a has an effect on that.

00:07:18.889 --> 00:07:28.490
What you what you consume is part of how your health will be going forward, uh, notwithstanding the unforeseen of of things that can happen.

00:07:28.730 --> 00:07:33.050
So uh, you know, those those are all part of your day and your time.

00:07:33.209 --> 00:07:34.569
So, where is time management?

00:07:34.649 --> 00:07:36.089
What what's your question about time management?

00:07:36.329 --> 00:07:37.689
So let's let's break it down.

00:07:37.850 --> 00:07:42.009
Let's break it down all the way, see if we can uh get the most clarity.

00:07:42.329 --> 00:07:49.209
Let's talk about a situation just totally um it's it's an imaginary situation.

00:07:49.290 --> 00:07:50.329
It's totally made up.

00:07:50.409 --> 00:07:51.930
But let's say you're 28.

00:07:52.250 --> 00:07:55.689
And let's say you have three kids, two girls and one boy.

00:07:56.170 --> 00:07:58.170
Sounds like one of us right now.

00:07:58.649 --> 00:08:00.490
I didn't know you're that young, Dad.

00:08:01.610 --> 00:08:10.730
And let's say you want to get your family out of a basement and into a respectable house.

00:08:11.370 --> 00:08:26.170
Let's say you want to advance your career to get that done, to get paid, and you also want to learn Torah for a serious amount of time, and you also want to hang out with your kids for the right amount of time.

00:08:27.050 --> 00:08:29.050
How how does a man balance all that?

00:08:29.129 --> 00:08:30.089
Well, how do you look at that?

00:08:30.170 --> 00:08:32.009
What would you advise that person to do?

00:08:32.409 --> 00:08:42.569
Well, I think the first thing is to understand that all of those things can take as much time as you're going to give it.

00:08:42.970 --> 00:08:50.009
And all of them together, based on what you just described, are gonna take more than you have.

00:08:50.329 --> 00:08:51.690
The more time than you have.

00:08:51.850 --> 00:08:59.210
It's just you the so so when you talk about the the things, and and by the way, you didn't say anything about Michael.

00:08:59.529 --> 00:09:03.450
You didn't say anything about about uh or what what's the the imaginary Michael?

00:09:03.529 --> 00:09:05.370
The guy fellow.

00:09:05.850 --> 00:09:06.250
Right.

00:09:06.490 --> 00:09:14.649
But you know, the the the part of part of uh uh of of well-being is taking care of yourself to some extent.

00:09:14.809 --> 00:09:16.889
So there's gotta be some time in there.

00:09:17.370 --> 00:09:28.809
Um I think uh I think it's sometimes it's a bit of trial and error, you know, but but the but priorities take effect here, you know, values take effect.

00:09:29.129 --> 00:09:40.809
Uh sometimes that's a good a good way to do that is to create uh a direction, an overall direction of what you're trying to accomplish in your year would be a good thing to do.

00:09:40.889 --> 00:09:51.930
You know, we we make an LL plan, we look at our year and we say this is where we want to be when we when when when Rosh Hashanah comes around next year, we make that plan and and try to live into that direction.

00:09:52.089 --> 00:10:00.329
And none of it's perfect, but if you know, if you look up uh what what all of the different things are, I think it the the basis of it comes down to values.

00:10:00.569 --> 00:10:35.289
Um you know, and and as far as as trying to accomplish, you know, you you're you're really um the all the things that are are ideal for what you're trying to do, the the the bigger house, the for for your growing family, your your uh your your dedication to the investment that you've made so far in Torah learning and to keep that up and also to follow your obligations to lead your family in Torah and to uh and to and to teach your children uh is primary to you.

00:10:35.450 --> 00:10:42.570
So how much how much you dedicate to that comes down to focus uh because of the limited amount of time.

00:10:42.730 --> 00:10:51.769
As far as your career in real estate, one the imaginary real estate career ideal, I think it comes down to priorities.

00:10:51.929 --> 00:10:52.970
You can't do every deal.

00:10:53.049 --> 00:10:56.809
For every hundred deals you look at, you might do one, two.

00:10:57.210 --> 00:11:01.529
And uh and so it becomes a matter of qualifying your time.

00:11:01.929 --> 00:11:04.809
Um, I really think that that's an important thing.

00:11:05.049 --> 00:11:26.570
So uh one of the things that I've suggested in time, you know, over time with with you particularly, but others is is is everything that you see that cause call that calls to you as being a possibility in where you're gonna invest your come your your your professional time, uh you can just make an Excel spreadsheet out of it.

00:11:26.809 --> 00:11:35.689
You can, you know, that'll keep uh keep you without having to have your mind race on each one, and then you can pick where the priority is.

00:11:35.850 --> 00:11:51.769
I I tend to I took a test when I started in real estate, you know, I'm interviewing for this corporate position, and uh and I really wanted and I had good good references and I got this really cool job as a property manager with the largest real estate commercial real estate company.

00:11:51.850 --> 00:11:52.889
I was really happy.

00:11:52.970 --> 00:11:56.570
I I loved it, and and it was really an exciting place to be.

00:11:56.649 --> 00:12:00.409
It was just really uh every day I would have these tingly feelings.

00:12:00.490 --> 00:12:06.250
I haven't had them in a while, but they were it was so brand new that uh that I loved it so much.

00:12:06.490 --> 00:12:10.809
But uh they said, if you want to take this test, and I'm of course I'm gonna take the test.

00:12:10.889 --> 00:12:15.769
And it came out in the test that he hates doing details.

00:12:15.850 --> 00:12:39.450
I don't think they use the word hates, but the result of the all of this exam of of of questions uh that related to what uh what I thought about anything is this or that kind of question, came out that the thing I remember the most was he doesn't like doing details, but he'll do enough details to make sure the deal gets done.

00:12:39.769 --> 00:12:49.289
So I I always took that as a as a spark for knowing that when I'm focusing on an end result, and we talked about this.

00:12:49.450 --> 00:12:55.129
Any deal that you work and you continue to work, you have a chance of being successful at it, a good chance of being successful at it.

00:12:55.289 --> 00:12:56.889
You can't just let it come to you.

00:12:56.970 --> 00:12:58.649
You have to continue to plow forward.

00:12:58.809 --> 00:13:01.049
It's the tortoise uh view of things.

00:13:01.129 --> 00:13:04.330
You know, the tortoise just kept plowing ahead one step.

00:13:04.490 --> 00:13:11.610
It was it's like it's almost like being a Balchuva, uh, in that, you know, every growth process takes a step, be that as it may.

00:13:11.850 --> 00:13:20.649
Um so if there's something that looks like it has legs, the next step is the next step.

00:13:20.809 --> 00:13:24.730
And the result has to do with the effort that you put into that next step.

00:13:24.889 --> 00:13:32.409
If there's no next step, if there's no, if there's no legs to it, you know that there's no legs to it, and you have to move on to the next thing.

00:13:32.570 --> 00:13:41.769
I think that's really how you're gonna figure out how to get to closing because you could work on a hundred things at one time and and and be excited and interesting.

00:13:41.850 --> 00:13:47.610
And I'm so busy, but busy doesn't get closing, and closing doesn't until it's closes, it doesn't get paid.

00:13:48.409 --> 00:13:48.570
Right.

00:13:49.610 --> 00:13:53.769
Getting paid, the betting, but yes, you said something about the most important thing in real estate.

00:13:53.929 --> 00:13:58.090
I really think getting paid would probably be right up there as the number one thing.

00:13:58.409 --> 00:13:58.730
All right.

00:13:58.809 --> 00:14:09.049
We have a whole we're gonna have to dedicate a whole episode to the the gray area that's between closing and actually getting paid and having the money show up in the account.

00:14:09.769 --> 00:14:11.049
That would be a good idea.

00:14:11.769 --> 00:14:19.689
I I had I asked Rabbi Stein, my Rosh Hai Shiva, the venerable Rosh Shiva of base measures Torah's chesed.

00:14:20.250 --> 00:14:28.809
I asked him a similar question that I just posed to you about making the most of time and all the different responsibilities.

00:14:29.049 --> 00:14:35.289
At that point, it wasn't a question of uh Torah study, family, and business.

00:14:35.370 --> 00:14:39.049
It was more just between Torah study and family.

00:14:39.450 --> 00:14:42.889
Before when life is, you know, really simple when you're learning in Kolo.

00:14:43.929 --> 00:14:47.610
And um I asked him the question how do I have more time?

00:14:47.850 --> 00:14:49.129
How do I make sense of all this?

00:14:49.370 --> 00:14:51.529
He said, There's plenty of time.

00:14:51.769 --> 00:14:53.129
You just wake up so late.

00:14:53.210 --> 00:14:54.970
You wake up at seven or eight o'clock.

00:14:55.049 --> 00:14:56.090
That's super late.

00:14:56.330 --> 00:14:57.370
You want to learn?

00:14:57.529 --> 00:15:01.450
Get up at five o'clock, and you'll have plenty of time to learn.

00:15:01.689 --> 00:15:03.850
So I was looking for.

00:15:04.169 --> 00:15:07.210
Yeah, I had a friend once that said, You want to play racquetball?

00:15:07.529 --> 00:15:09.450
An older friend, a guy really looked up to you.

00:15:09.529 --> 00:15:10.409
This goes back a while ago.

00:15:10.570 --> 00:15:11.529
Yeah, I'll play racquetball.

00:15:11.610 --> 00:15:12.169
I love that.

00:15:12.330 --> 00:15:14.330
Uh, you know, especially want to hang out with this guy.

00:15:14.490 --> 00:15:15.450
He's really cool.

00:15:15.769 --> 00:15:19.129
He said, Okay, we'll uh we'll we'll start at seven o'clock Sunday morning.

00:15:19.210 --> 00:15:20.730
I said, Seven o'clock?

00:15:20.970 --> 00:15:21.929
That's really early.

00:15:22.090 --> 00:15:24.409
I mean, uh, you know, at that point I was sleeping late.

00:15:24.570 --> 00:15:27.610
He goes, Well, you can't get anything done while you're sleeping.

00:15:28.250 --> 00:15:29.289
Is is death.

00:15:29.450 --> 00:15:31.370
That's what Rabbi Stein says, sleep is death.

00:15:31.610 --> 00:15:33.850
Which he's he he's not making that up, also, right?

00:16:56.149 --> 00:16:59.269
Sleep is one-sixtieth of death, I think, something like that.

00:16:59.670 --> 00:17:01.670
Okay, you still need to get good rest.

00:17:01.990 --> 00:17:03.430
You still gotta get good rest.

00:17:03.750 --> 00:17:09.750
Well, that when we were driving to to um I don't know where we were.

00:17:10.069 --> 00:17:13.109
I may we may I may have been engaged to your daughter at the time.

00:17:13.750 --> 00:17:14.629
Maybe we were traveling.

00:17:14.789 --> 00:17:19.349
We're traveling in the in the blue Lexus hybrid.

00:17:19.909 --> 00:17:21.829
Might have been going out to play golf, maybe.

00:17:21.990 --> 00:17:23.829
You but I still remember it clearly.

00:17:24.309 --> 00:17:30.869
You told me some formula on your on your hand about five different things that you could spend your time on.

00:17:31.829 --> 00:17:32.789
Yeah, we just went through that.

00:17:32.950 --> 00:17:34.950
We went, yeah, we w we just sort of went through that.

00:17:35.029 --> 00:17:35.670
We it's basically.

00:17:35.990 --> 00:17:36.789
What is the five?

00:17:36.869 --> 00:17:37.670
I thought we did three.

00:17:38.789 --> 00:17:50.710
I think it's your family, your Torah, uh God connection, your your business, um, your house, and you.

00:17:53.109 --> 00:17:54.309
Me, right, you.

00:17:54.549 --> 00:17:59.589
That also needs a little bit of Yeah, I I would not uh you can't give that up.

00:18:00.230 --> 00:18:16.549
The today I was running around dad to sometimes you gotta you gotta pop by do a drive-thru and pick up some food from from Isle 9 and live on a roll of sushi, and you gotta sometimes you're not home for dinner and you gotta take care of everything, and it feels like you're juggling a lot.

00:18:16.950 --> 00:18:19.509
But Dad, I have a random question for you.

00:18:19.829 --> 00:18:24.149
How did you decide to get into real estate at the very beginning of your career?

00:18:24.390 --> 00:18:26.710
How come you didn't just become a lawyer or a doctor?

00:18:26.870 --> 00:18:29.350
Or what did your did your dad guide you that way?

00:18:29.830 --> 00:18:32.310
My father was a dentist, thought I could be one.

00:18:32.549 --> 00:18:38.950
I I I when I was playing soccer in high school, I I I was a uh I was on the varsity soccer team.

00:18:39.109 --> 00:18:48.470
So I during during it wasn't soccer season, I I worked with him for a little bit and he called me in to help him as an assistant and extract a wisdom tooth.

00:18:48.549 --> 00:18:55.830
And I'm sitting there, you know, and he's cutting into this guy's face, and ah, and and I'm seeing blood.

00:18:55.910 --> 00:18:59.670
And he goes, You gotta look at it and you gotta hold a suction right there.

00:18:59.990 --> 00:19:04.870
At that point, I called in his assistant, Holly, Holly, she comes in to relieve me.

00:19:04.950 --> 00:19:07.269
And it was at that moment that I couldn't have been a dentist.

00:19:07.350 --> 00:19:13.589
My sister, who is a dentist, said to my father, Daddy, uh, what if he would have been a bad dentist?

00:19:13.670 --> 00:19:16.549
She he goes, Oh, he wouldn't have been a bad dentist, I'm telling you.

00:19:16.629 --> 00:19:19.350
I I ran away from that uh pretty quickly.

00:19:19.509 --> 00:19:21.190
I just uh wasn't that focused.

00:19:21.269 --> 00:19:30.790
And and really uh in in college, uh you would have had to uh to become a dentist, you would have had to study certain sciences, chemistry, and so on.

00:19:30.950 --> 00:19:35.350
I was more into uh uh a social environment in college.

00:19:35.509 --> 00:19:42.230
I I I uh at the University of Maryland, I chaired uh a dance marathon for the benefit of the Cancer Society.

00:19:42.310 --> 00:19:44.710
I was uh president of my fraternity.

00:19:44.790 --> 00:19:46.710
I really I was a social animal.

00:19:46.790 --> 00:19:55.109
I got very involved in campus politics and uh and and and uh student activities and and group dynamics, things like that.

00:19:55.190 --> 00:19:55.910
That was really something.

00:19:56.310 --> 00:19:57.029
So why real estate?

00:19:57.190 --> 00:19:57.990
So why'd you do real estate?

00:19:58.149 --> 00:20:06.069
Why'd you say so then I uh politics is brutal in a blood sport, and I'm really a I'm really a sweet, nice guy.

00:20:06.310 --> 00:20:08.230
So uh that's not for me either.

00:20:08.390 --> 00:20:10.790
But and everything's politics, by the way.

00:20:10.950 --> 00:20:13.990
Family is politics, it's politics of the family as well.

00:20:14.310 --> 00:20:23.430
But um what happened was when I graduated college, uh it was uh it was I I I graduated in four and a half years.

00:20:23.589 --> 00:20:25.750
Uh that last semester was a ton of fun.

00:20:25.910 --> 00:20:31.910
And I came out in December and got my diploma, and I started uh looking at what I was gonna do the next year.

00:20:31.990 --> 00:20:34.709
And we thought about law school, and I applied to a bunch of them.

00:20:34.790 --> 00:20:35.430
I didn't get in.

00:20:35.509 --> 00:20:36.790
I probably didn't have the grades.

00:20:37.029 --> 00:20:40.069
My LSAT scores weren't in the high level.

00:20:40.149 --> 00:20:51.669
And to get into law school, you have to have grades, LSATs, and and really, they also look at money because when you graduate, they want you to donate to the university, all the uh to the law school.

00:20:51.830 --> 00:20:56.709
And none of those played out, and uh, and and uh I just wasn't that into it.

00:20:56.790 --> 00:20:59.750
I'm not that studious in that way.

00:20:59.990 --> 00:21:08.390
While I'm doing that, a close friend of the family said, you know, I was talking to my real estate leasing agent, and he said he really needs some help.

00:21:08.470 --> 00:21:09.669
Why don't you call him up?

00:21:09.830 --> 00:21:12.549
So I called him up and he said, you know, come in and see me.

00:21:12.629 --> 00:21:13.270
He said, you know what?

00:21:13.350 --> 00:21:14.790
Really, no, you need to see my boss.

00:21:14.870 --> 00:21:19.029
So he gets me the meeting with his with this guy, Bob Trundle, pretty cool guy.

00:21:19.109 --> 00:21:24.870
That's the guy who gave me the test that told me that I don't like to do details enough, but I'll do enough to get the deal done.

00:21:25.029 --> 00:21:31.029
And Trundle gives me the uh, tells me, look, uh, you know, that really uh the job is in property management.

00:21:31.189 --> 00:21:33.109
Go over and meet with uh John Millar.

00:21:33.270 --> 00:21:42.069
John Millar was head of property management of this big company, and he was a he was a patient of my father's and really liked me and gave me the job in property management.

00:21:42.310 --> 00:21:44.390
That's a short way of how I got into it.

00:21:44.629 --> 00:21:50.870
And uh then from there I got into the leasing department for about a year and decided that I wanted to go into sales.

00:21:50.950 --> 00:21:59.910
So I went into sales, I made a my first really big commission uh in a sale of a big warehouse building to a family friend, a close family friend.

00:22:00.149 --> 00:22:03.990
Um uh that was a story that is for an it's a great story.

00:22:04.149 --> 00:22:12.549
And uh in and I will tell you that the that when it came time to this is a family friend, and they went to get financing.

00:22:12.629 --> 00:22:14.549
I really just have to tell you this one thing.

00:22:14.790 --> 00:22:30.470
When uh when we went to get financing, the financing process is a process that I was learning, and the the timing of it did not align with the seller's desire to close, especially after this due diligence period was over.

00:22:30.629 --> 00:22:32.390
And he said, I'm gonna kill the contract.

00:22:32.549 --> 00:22:35.270
Well, the family that was gonna buy it had the money.

00:22:35.509 --> 00:22:47.750
So I said, okay, so I go to another family friend, very wealthy, all of these people you know, Michael, and I said, they need to borrow money for a year, maybe two.

00:22:48.069 --> 00:22:49.910
And it would be an interest-only deal.

00:22:50.149 --> 00:22:52.390
The guy says, Okay, I'll loan him the money.

00:22:52.629 --> 00:22:56.870
How he the way that that got negotiated is a different part of the story.

00:22:57.189 --> 00:23:01.830
But the we agree on the deal, and I go and they give me a cashier's check.

00:23:01.910 --> 00:23:10.390
I'll remember this for$1,700,000 cashier's check to give to our friend, the closing attorney.

00:23:10.549 --> 00:23:13.189
So it's all friends except for the seller.

00:23:13.509 --> 00:23:17.509
And that's the loan, that's the loan to help close the that's the loan to help close the channel.

00:23:17.750 --> 00:23:19.109
That's the purchase money loan.

00:23:19.189 --> 00:23:24.870
The family had the equity money, all the money for the closing, everything's signed.

00:23:24.950 --> 00:23:31.990
And I walk in with this check to to the attorney's office, who's a friend of all of us, and I say, Here's the money.

00:23:32.069 --> 00:23:34.069
And they said, Did you hear about your commission?

00:23:34.390 --> 00:23:36.149
I go, What about my commission?

00:23:36.390 --> 00:23:40.470
He goes, Well, they want you to take$10,000 less.

00:23:40.709 --> 00:23:42.790
Oh, now I'm standing there with the close.

00:23:43.109 --> 00:23:47.029
Uh, I'm I'm standing there with this is real money for me at age 26.

00:23:47.270 --> 00:23:53.750
And I said, Um, well, uh, I'm gonna I'm holding the check.

00:23:53.910 --> 00:23:55.350
All the papers are signed.

00:23:55.430 --> 00:23:58.069
No one's at the closing except me and the lawyer.

00:23:58.310 --> 00:24:02.069
And I'm standing in his office and he goes, Kevin, what do you want to do?

00:24:02.310 --> 00:24:03.990
I said, I don't want to do anything.

00:24:04.069 --> 00:24:06.390
I'm I'm holding the closing right here.

00:24:06.629 --> 00:24:09.029
He said, Well, take my office and decide what you want to do.

00:24:09.109 --> 00:24:09.910
I call my boss.

00:24:10.149 --> 00:24:12.629
My boss goes, Well, just walk out.

00:24:12.790 --> 00:24:14.390
I go, walk out aware.

00:24:14.549 --> 00:24:16.549
I'm standing in here by myself with the money.

00:24:16.790 --> 00:24:17.669
She starts laughing.

00:24:17.830 --> 00:24:20.790
She goes, she goes, Don't take anything less.

00:24:20.950 --> 00:24:21.990
Don't take anything less.

00:24:22.069 --> 00:24:34.950
And he said, He and the seller eventually said, uh, it's not you, it's your, you know, you're it's he had another couple of reasons that he wanted to deal with it because it had to do with his relationship with someone else in my company.

00:24:35.189 --> 00:24:36.709
Anyway, I ended out getting paid.

00:24:36.790 --> 00:24:39.270
So, you know, you never know what somebody would.

00:24:39.750 --> 00:24:40.390
Did you get the dad?

00:24:40.470 --> 00:24:41.830
Did you get the what's the end of the story?

00:24:41.910 --> 00:24:45.029
Did you you you said no and then he gave you the number you wanted for the commission?

00:24:45.270 --> 00:24:47.750
Yeah, well, the number that was in the that was in the contract.

00:24:47.910 --> 00:24:50.950
Everything got sold exactly as it was supposed to be signed.

00:24:51.029 --> 00:24:53.750
He was just trying to trying to beat me at the end.

00:24:54.470 --> 00:25:02.950
So anyway, um, yeah, so that's a that's a lesson in knowing that nobody really wants you to get paid unless they're making money because you're getting paid.

00:25:03.109 --> 00:25:03.990
But that's for a different story.

00:25:04.230 --> 00:25:04.790
That's for a different story.

00:25:05.029 --> 00:25:13.189
So anyway, so I went into sales, and then uh after a while it became apparent to me that I wasn't going anywhere else in this company, and I went into business for myself.

00:25:13.270 --> 00:25:20.230
It reminds me of one quick story that I've been thinking about this week, namely for a number of business matters that I've been dealing with.

00:25:20.790 --> 00:25:25.350
Back where I worked at this company, it was called Goodman Seeger Hogan.

00:25:25.430 --> 00:25:28.390
It was the biggest commercial real estate in Virginia.

00:25:28.549 --> 00:25:33.029
They had management contract or contracts on malls all over the place.

00:25:33.189 --> 00:25:34.870
They had all the top agents.

00:25:34.950 --> 00:25:41.109
It was really something that was really dealing with the top players in in the real estate industry at that time.

00:25:41.589 --> 00:25:44.310
And I was I was green and and and so on.

00:25:44.390 --> 00:25:47.669
And anyway, so when I first got in there, you say you were green?

00:25:48.069 --> 00:25:49.430
Green meaning brand new.

00:25:49.509 --> 00:25:50.549
I was, you know, I was a rookie.

00:25:50.870 --> 00:25:53.430
I thought you were thought I thought like you you were nauseous.

00:25:54.149 --> 00:25:56.470
It's a no, it's a uh metaphor.

00:25:56.629 --> 00:25:57.910
Anyway, so Mr.

00:25:57.990 --> 00:26:04.790
Hogan, Hunter Hogan, an old Virginia guy, did business with all the Jews in town, all of my father's friends.

00:26:04.950 --> 00:26:11.910
My their their kids still still tell stories with me about what deal Hunter brought and what deal they did with him.

00:26:11.990 --> 00:26:14.629
And I I knew him a long time after I met him this day.

00:26:14.790 --> 00:26:20.069
But he calls me into his office, he's chairman of the board, and I'm, you know, I'm I'm all starry-eyed and everything.

00:26:20.149 --> 00:26:21.430
And I sit down and I go, hi, Mr.

00:26:21.509 --> 00:26:21.830
Hogan.

00:26:21.910 --> 00:26:22.629
It's so nice to meet you.

00:26:22.709 --> 00:26:27.669
He goes, Kevin, and he talked to me for a little while, but this part of the story is just memorable.

00:26:27.910 --> 00:26:30.790
He goes, Kevin, I just want to tell you something.

00:26:31.109 --> 00:26:34.470
When you go into business for yourself, I go, no, no, Mr.

00:26:34.629 --> 00:26:35.669
Hogan, I love it here.

00:26:35.750 --> 00:26:37.189
I'm gonna be here for the rest of my life.

00:26:37.350 --> 00:26:47.990
He goes, like I said, when you go into business for yourself, you uh you gotta know that this is a crisis business every single day.

00:26:48.069 --> 00:26:50.390
It's a crisis one after the other.

00:26:50.549 --> 00:26:54.069
And I'm gonna tell you, it is so much fun.

00:26:54.390 --> 00:26:58.709
I have fun with it every single day, and I just love it.

00:26:59.109 --> 00:27:19.990
And I'm going, and so you know, on days where every where where you know everything's imploding, you know, the the the the guy makes a last minute change to the contract, the plumbing thing needs to be handled, and uh and and somebody doesn't show up when they're supposed to, and you go, Oh, this is a crisis, just like he talked about, and I'm having so much fun, right?

00:27:20.230 --> 00:27:23.109
Anyway, uh, but that was uh that was memorable for me.

00:27:23.189 --> 00:27:24.709
I'm smiling thinking about it.

00:27:24.870 --> 00:27:25.109
Yeah.

00:27:25.430 --> 00:27:29.270
You do a really good uh Southern Southern accent.

00:27:29.589 --> 00:27:37.669
Well, Hunter was uh was a was a very uh a very uh uh there's no words to describe, I'm one of a kind.

00:27:37.990 --> 00:27:43.830
So you got started in so let's say we're we really we can talk about the best way to get started in real estate just for a minute here.

00:27:43.990 --> 00:27:47.990
You didn't you didn't go to college for it, you just took a property management job?

00:27:48.470 --> 00:27:54.629
Uh I did, but you know, every business has to do with some sort of uh uh relationship.

00:27:54.790 --> 00:27:57.830
We started that that as a basis for starting a business.

00:27:57.990 --> 00:28:06.230
Uh and and uh and and property management is a good way to start because you learn about what's in real property.

00:28:06.390 --> 00:28:21.029
Uh the, you know, it's not just the land, it's not just the the the foundation, you get into all of the mechanics of the roof and the the plumbing, the electricity, the the the interior walls, the thing, different parts of it, what needs to be managed.

00:28:21.189 --> 00:28:26.390
You got to collect rent and you know, you gotta go into the guy's office and collect the rent because Mr.

00:28:26.470 --> 00:28:28.790
Dickinson's calling going, why is this guy behind?

00:28:28.950 --> 00:28:38.310
You got to go in there and you go into his his little shop on on Gramby Street, and he's a little old man running and he's got a gun in his pocket because he needs to make sure that nothing bad happens to him.

00:28:38.470 --> 00:28:45.509
And you got to tell him, you know, I got I need$200, and he goes, I want to give it to you in cash, and I don't take cash, you know, that kind of thing.

00:28:45.669 --> 00:28:55.350
So it was uh it was so property management was a good a good angle to start out in, uh, just as far as building a foundation for understanding what real estate is.

00:28:55.509 --> 00:29:12.069
And then, you know, then you have to, you know, the vet the leasing was good because leases create value in income-producing properties, and that's how you understand how those values come about to be able to figure out how to buy and sell property and analyze what kind of return on your investment.

00:29:15.109 --> 00:29:15.830
Interesting.

00:29:16.069 --> 00:29:18.149
And now that there's no, there's no excuse.

00:29:18.470 --> 00:29:27.029
There's really two different types of education that I've discovered in all of one week in real estate uh since I've signed at Imperial.

00:29:27.509 --> 00:29:38.870
But before that, I had 75 hours worth of education via the Alexander Institute for Real Estate Education online 75-hour uh course.

00:29:39.189 --> 00:29:56.629
And I could tell you all about um the Sherman, the antitrust uh acts and what radon is and what mold is and when the lead-based paint and all these, all these quiz questions.

00:29:56.790 --> 00:30:00.870
But then all of a sudden I get out there and I knock on a door and say, hey, you want to sell your house?

00:30:01.029 --> 00:30:10.310
There's no questions on the test, and there's no there's no tips for negotiating better and understanding how people uh want to do business and actually getting the hands-on education.

00:30:10.390 --> 00:30:16.149
It's like two different worlds the real education, and then there's the course education, which kind of is a little bit of nourish kite.

00:30:16.470 --> 00:30:19.109
You've stepped into a whole new world, my friend.

00:30:20.149 --> 00:30:21.509
Dad, do you ever get messed over?

00:30:21.750 --> 00:30:24.149
Did you ever get messed over pretty bad in business?

00:30:24.709 --> 00:30:25.910
Several times.

00:30:26.230 --> 00:30:26.950
You do this.

00:30:29.990 --> 00:30:32.790
I think that everybody runs into it.

00:30:33.270 --> 00:30:38.310
You know, the but I was saying, and I know you're at a hard stop here, so I don't wanna I don't want to take too much.

00:30:38.390 --> 00:30:52.790
We can pick up anytime you want, but you know, the the the people I say to you that the people who want you to make money in real estate are the ones who are going to in any business really is that they're gonna make money when you make money.

00:30:52.950 --> 00:30:54.950
When you make money, you're making money for them.

00:30:55.109 --> 00:30:57.109
They're okay with you getting paid.

00:30:57.350 --> 00:30:59.669
Otherwise, they don't want you to get paid.

00:30:59.830 --> 00:31:01.109
They want them to get paid.

00:31:01.189 --> 00:31:03.109
That's the business model itself.

00:31:03.270 --> 00:31:09.189
And no matter how uh you tend to believe them, it's you can run into that guy.

00:31:09.350 --> 00:31:14.390
And the guy you really want to do business with is the one who says, protect yourself.

00:31:14.549 --> 00:31:18.629
The guy who straight up says that to you, because at least he's telling you the truth.

00:31:18.870 --> 00:31:22.790
But, you know, the guy who says, Oh, don't worry about it, I'll take care of you.

00:31:22.950 --> 00:31:35.189
Um, and even the guy who really wants to take care of you and say, you know, we're gonna do this together, we're gonna win, at the end of the day, you know, when it comes down to splitting up the money, how much are you really gonna get?

00:31:35.509 --> 00:31:41.270
You know, so that's why I think you have to get most of what it is that uh really anything that you deal that you're gonna make.

00:31:41.350 --> 00:31:44.629
You just need to write it down because if he says it, why didn't he sign it?

00:31:44.790 --> 00:31:45.189
You know?

00:31:45.430 --> 00:31:46.549
Oh, I love it.

00:31:46.629 --> 00:31:46.950
I love it.

00:31:47.029 --> 00:31:52.549
It was I just did when I was sell uh selling uh what was I selling like a safer to somebody, something really small.

00:31:52.629 --> 00:31:54.230
It's a big business transaction in my life.

00:31:54.310 --> 00:31:59.750
I think it was selling, he was selling an old phone or an old kosher phone or something, maybe a hundred dollars.

00:31:59.910 --> 00:32:05.990
And and I happened to come into the Chavitzchayim wrote anytime you do any business, he said exactly like that.

00:32:06.149 --> 00:32:07.270
Just write it down.

00:32:07.990 --> 00:32:12.950
Just write it down because people forget people and a year later, hey, did I ever pay you for that?

00:32:13.029 --> 00:32:14.149
Or you still owe me for that?

00:32:14.310 --> 00:32:17.830
It's a mistake, but it's he says, write everything down.

00:32:17.990 --> 00:32:21.350
And uh Ramchal also says, money's sticky.

00:32:21.910 --> 00:32:23.509
It's money's sticky, it sticks.

00:32:24.230 --> 00:32:27.270
I want to make you money, but it's kind of sticking in my hand.

00:32:27.830 --> 00:32:36.230
Yeah, and in the in the end, I mean the where I've gotten messed over the most is you know, uh trusting that what I'm doing for somebody will get repaid.

00:32:36.390 --> 00:32:39.430
Uh and it it it doesn't it doesn't work like that.

00:32:39.589 --> 00:32:43.350
And you know, some people are happy enough to give you advice for free.

00:32:43.509 --> 00:32:50.709
They're willing to uh they're willing to um uh they're willing to uh you know to maintain that part of the relationship.

00:32:50.870 --> 00:32:55.189
They're they're willing to let you solve their problems and not pay you.

00:32:55.750 --> 00:32:57.750
They're willing to do all of those things.

00:32:57.830 --> 00:33:05.029
And, you know, the the the players who say at the beginning, this is what my fee is.

00:33:05.270 --> 00:33:06.790
Do you want to work with me?

00:33:07.350 --> 00:33:10.790
And those are usually professionals that you have the most respect for.

00:33:10.870 --> 00:33:13.109
You know, my architect, he tells me what it is.

00:33:13.270 --> 00:33:15.589
My my engineer, he tells me what it is.

00:33:15.910 --> 00:33:17.350
He makes sure that I agree that.

00:33:17.430 --> 00:33:21.270
And he sends me a form in writing telling me this is what it's going to be.

00:33:21.350 --> 00:33:23.910
And if it's any change in that, I will let you know.

00:33:24.149 --> 00:33:27.109
And uh to a person that usually works out.

00:33:27.270 --> 00:33:38.390
So uh I tend to believe people who tell me up front what I'm doing and write it down and send it over to me and say, This is the this is the scope of work that I'm gonna perform for you.

00:33:38.629 --> 00:33:41.029
And I often not often, but I have done that.

00:33:41.109 --> 00:33:48.950
And the only time I'm I'm sure I'm gonna get paid, I'm sure what I'm gonna get paid is when I'm controlling the the transaction myself.

00:33:49.109 --> 00:33:51.109
Uh otherwise I need that in writing.

00:33:51.270 --> 00:33:55.509
And you know, and and and some of the people closest to me have hurt me the most.

00:33:55.669 --> 00:33:57.430
So Oh, that man, whoa.

00:33:57.750 --> 00:33:59.990
But uh so you have to be careful, you do.

00:34:00.390 --> 00:34:06.950
I asked my I asked before I before I married your daughter, I had a conversation with re Rev Elia Bridney.

00:34:07.589 --> 00:34:10.389
I don't think I told this to anybody, so now I'm gonna let this be public.

00:34:10.629 --> 00:34:14.549
But I basically, when I was young, I I was getting really sick.

00:34:14.709 --> 00:34:17.429
And I don't know if you remember this, I lost like 10 pounds.

00:34:18.149 --> 00:34:22.629
And and it came clear after I got an endoscopy that I had indigestion.

00:34:22.949 --> 00:34:24.789
And I was always a little nervous about it.

00:34:24.949 --> 00:34:29.509
Indigestion, sometimes it bothers me, you know, it's chronic, it could even be genetic.

00:34:29.669 --> 00:34:31.269
All these different things were going around my head.

00:34:31.429 --> 00:34:36.469
I called him, I said, before I get engaged, do I need to tell my wife?

00:34:36.629 --> 00:34:43.109
Like, do I need to reveal that like I may have some sort of weird genetic, chronic uh indigestion problem?

00:34:43.829 --> 00:34:50.549
And just just a similar question, like you had, but in a different scenario of just up front, dude, should I be frank?

00:34:50.709 --> 00:34:55.509
Should I be honest and tell somebody, you know, what's good or how much it's gonna cost or what's bad?

00:34:55.669 --> 00:34:57.109
And he told me, I'll never forget it.

00:34:57.189 --> 00:35:00.869
We were on the phone, Ravelia Bruni, the great rabbi of Yeshiva in Brooklyn.

00:35:01.189 --> 00:35:01.989
Yeah, yeah, I've heard that.

00:35:02.149 --> 00:35:07.189